Does labour want to make itself unelectable ?

[glasslightly]

The country has ‘spoken’, even if you consider it a protest vote for Reform. It’s clear that hard left politics are not popular. Fair enough if that’s your committed political philosophy but if you’re a member of the Labour Party and your job/ any shred of political influence you want rest on any form of political clout, surely you don’t aim for a new hard left leadership ?

And the country is once again heading for disaster. History repeating itself.
Business restructuring can be done very quickly. 2 years is long enough.

@Vivienne1000 Exactly. Everyone is asking but it's clear from this thread alone that they have absolutely no intention of listening.

What actual benefits are there for taxpayers? Absolutely nothing (or not anything of worth!)

They are not going to listen. And that is why their government is failing. They are simply not listening to the hard working tax payers. All the U turns show they have no grasp of reality. And what all the supporters fail to mention is Mandelson.

Maybe you need to brush up on your political knowledge.

Highest ever taxes
Highest ever public spending
Highest ever welfare
The top 1% leaving the country and taking their taxes with them
Productivity lower than ever
Highest ever Business taxes and especially small business going to the wall

That’s hard left.

So many words. All meaningless and lacking any substance. Even chat GPT can’t help this list cause.

But that’s how the left operates. Busy work, committed, talking shops, bigger rule books and zero outcomes.

Now let’s look at outcomes.

Stagnant economy
Increased inflation
Unemployment shooting up
Highest ever taxes
Highest ever welfare
Borrowing costs even higher than under Liz Truss

Labour have broken this country even more than it was broken when the took over. Anyone who tries to defend this is either economically illiterate or a comedian. Except it’s not funny.

I can’t see how there’s any appetite for even higher taxes and even more welfare spending.

I don’t understand why he thinks Harriet Harman is the answer to anything. She’s been in politics for years, achieved absolutely nothing and is strongly associated with PIE and the expenses scandal.

Nor do I understand why so many are so keen for Andy Burnham. I don’t want to live in a country made in the image of Piccadilly Gardens.

I think the problem is they are too right and not left enough in some areas

I am fed up of this.

Reform now have something like a whopping 2000 council seats out of 20,000 across the country. The vast majority of people who have turned out to vote have voted against reform.

The country has spoken. It has spoken out against the hateful rhetoric of Nigel Farage and his party of grifters.

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Labour “hard left”??!! Yeah, right, OK.

But that isn’t only in the last two years.
Austerity instilled by a Conservative government left such big cuts. My LA had to save millions £3-4,5) year on year. They did that by cutting services (and then having to out source to the private sector when there was no service left to meet statutory responsibilities, shareholders love it! )

Benefit claimants who can work, mortgage rises - all been happening for much longer than the Labour tenure.

@MandingoAteMyBaby Your list is directly from Labour Party handouts.
Nearly everything on that list will need extra tax to finance it. Many items are not needed. That bollocks phrase about decarbonising the energy industry. We do not need to do it so quickly. It is pointless ideology. The extra carbon tax is going to destroy jobs in the glass industry because other countries do not pay it. Cheaper to import empty beer bottles from abroad than make them in Britain. How mad is that?
The PM who promised us growth is going to close down another industry.

Mortgage rates were very low until the famous mini budget…. That was part of the Tories downfall.

Employment reforms and rent reforms are going to have a lot of negative consequences.

The right wing press is having a field day with Miliband’s energy stuff and we’re all paying through the nose for energy.

They are dragging their feet disgracefully on the Supreme Court ruling, it’s an insult to women and girls, Harriet Harman is the horrible icing on that particularly unpalatable cake.

The NHS is in many ways unfixable by any government and giving it more funding simply produces a different set of negative headlines than not funding it. It isn’t possible to disguise the fact that it needs structural reform -
i dont blame this govt but they don’t get credit from voters for a bit more funding.

The u-turns, the tone-deafness, the lack of preparation in opposition, the all-round crapness of this government is plain to see.

The fact that they think we just need to be told
again what a good job they’re doing and then we’ll understand really demonstrates how incredibly hard they’re not listening to the country.

I would really like to see an objective audit of how all that was promised by the Labour Party at the beginning is working.
How many houses that were promised have been built
How many breakfast clubs/extended childcare settings are still up and running
Smashing the gangs/cutting migration - how is that panning out?

It is very easy to make promises but it only counts if they keep their word and see it through
We don’t want change for changes sake we want to see improvement in our everyday life
We haven’t got time to wait and see while they conjure up their next big thing

@OfTheirOwn many councils in some areas has been hit with undocumented unprecedented immigration that no budgets accounted for .
Re Blair era. .then we got the global credit crisis.
Then apprently the EU wanted austerity?

Anyway I agree op it's awful how much further do they think they can push us with this utter nonsense.

@Eviebeans that's what they promised and to tread lightly on our lives.
Everything is just worse.

Working class people don't want this. They are not lame ducks. They don't want more benefits or more job security or renters rights. They are not charity cases. Those things are what Labour want to give them.
They want the opportunity to thrive. They want employers who make enough money to recruit. They want private landlords so they can have the option of cheap and not very cheerful or something better. They don't want net zero. They don't care about hereditary peers or private schools or nationalised railways. Labour care about those things. They don't care about immigrants but they want a level playing field. They don't want benefits being given to people who won't work or have just rocked up in the UK. They don't want to hear patronising bollocks about flags, Palestine or cross dressers.
They want small government. As we can very well see from how they have voted.

Who are you to say what working class people want?

And of course your personal views reflect the whole uk population 🤷‍♀️. Or are you just talking about the 26% that voted reform?

The difficulty I have, is that DD2 asked me what the different parties stand for. I took her to each party website and tried to show her as neutrally as possible, what they were saying. Labour's site doesn't actually say what they will do. When you click on their 'change' headings, it just leads you back to what they've done. I've since found the manifesto which outlines plans, but their home page doesn't point to it clearly.

Labour didn’t just lose votes to one party.

Labour have made lots of changes meankng long term support for social housing providers

wes steering has kicked off major reform including plans to abolish nhs England, women’s health reforms, pefoemance based incentives, cutting bureaucracy, building neighbourhood health centres

Energy prices won’t come down in any meaningful way until we have energy security and wean off fossil fuels

The outcome of rent reforms and employment reforms remains to be seen

They can’t fix the country overnight, the problems are immense. People expect too much and the hugely mostly right wing press give them no quarter, all they want is tax cuts for their wealthy owners

Who else can fix the country 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️. Right wing austerity has not created growth and has left the UK a basket case. Fecking Farage has all the signs of being the UK Trump and just lining pockets of the super rich

we have the highest energy prices in Europe, they u-turned on WFA, the messaging is all wrong and it’s not good enough to say ‘sorry, you’ll have to pay more until we decide supplies are stable’ - it may be true it may not but they are going about it in an incredibly annoying way.

I rate Wes Streeting but honestly, I don’t feel grateful about any of this stuff.

I blame austerity for a great many of the problems we face today, but I am sorry, a welfare bill that is higher than income tax is appalling and - self-evidently - unsustainable.

The employment reforms are like something designed for 30 years ago. The rent reforms may have a positive outcome once things have shaken down, which could take some time. However I don’t believe these reforms were needed or wanted.

I agree with pp who said that they insist on inflicting things on people that people don’t necessarily want.

The welfare bill is mostly pensions. It’s going up because of he triple lock and because the pensioner to worker ratio is growing year on year and has been for decades

I'd be amazed if people living on benefits don't want more money. There are millions of people who are ill, disabled, carers, who can barely make ends meet, pay their bills and eat without using foodbanks. Why would they not want more?
Similarly who living in a rented property doesn't want rights that give them more security, ensures the property is kept in good order and restricts extortionate rent increases?
And if everyone wants private landlords, it begs the question why the lists for affordable not for profit social housing are so long?
I can't imagine anyone with a job without much autonomy and authority who doesn't want protection from employers who might otherwise exploit or discriminate against them.
I trust you have evidence for your confident assertions to the contrary?