Council Elections

[OneTealShaker]

The first declared seats going to Reform.

Reform +2
Labour -1

Buckle up people.

Talk to most people here and it's all about immigration, look online on comment sections over many many a website and it's about immigration. They blame everything on immigration. Lack of housing, lack of good schools, lack of NHS and more. Sorry, those are the norms. It's not down to immigration is it? No. Is the truth insulting? Not my problem.

It's a shit show, on the other hand it will finally expose Reform's true level of expertise (or lack thereof).

They fell for it with Labour too. No tax rises for working people, welfare reform, smash the gangs, build millions of houses etc. etc. Starmer is just as big a slopey shouldered, slippery, bullshitting weasel as the rest of them.

And this is a load of rubbish. SOME Reform supporters voted for the reasons you state, but not all. Dismissive attitudes don’t help, you must see that.
If we don’t learn, we can’t change things.
Instead of assuming the country is just full of hateful racists, why not engage brains and figure out what’s going on?

Instead of blaming Reform why don’t you blame the other parties for being so weak and making Reform look like the only option for people? Say what you like about them but they’ve listened to the concerns from the public and built their campaign around them. The other parties are not listening to the public and people are frustrated with them.

I didn’t make any “lecture”

I never said idiots shouldn’t be able to vote.

It’s not everyone else’s job to coax idiots into not doing dumb stuff, even if that was possible. If intelligent people attempted to do that they’d be accused of being patronising and insulting. People need to take responsibility for their own choices and the consequences.

Nobody said stupid people are not humans. They’re just stupid humans.

The people at fault for doing stupid things and the outcome of that are the people who do the stupid things. Your argument is reminiscent of the “women deserve to be raped if they are walking alone in the dark/ wearing certain clothes/ decide to drink some alcohol” etc abusers’ charter. Blaming other people for your mistakes is really low and people can’t expect any respect if they engage in such behaviour. Adults are meant to have learned behaviour that isn’t reminiscent of pre-schoolers.

Why should the people who have been harmed by these idiots be responsible for trying to “find common ground”? More displacement. The idiots need to take responsibility for their actions, apologise, and seek common ground with those they have wronged.

I’m not trying to influence anyone.

HTH.

Hahahaaa yet more of the same. Grasping constantly for someone, anyone to blame other than the people who actually decided to vote for these muppets.

No: they will need to own their choice and deal with the consequences.

It’s the only way they’ll learn.

It’s nobody’s fault but their own and this time the rest of us shouldn’t increase our subsidy of them to bail them out.

Maybe look at why the party you back is not doing well.

No problem for me as I don’t back any party. If you read my posts on the thread you’d see I have been critical of all of them, to the degree that they deserve.

But thanks, I’m sure the imaginary party that I allegedly back is quaking in its imaginary boots.

Really? REALLY? Ok, lol.

Enjoy what is coming. Hope you don't value any of the things that's nice to live in the UK when the general election comes around and you vote Reform. They are anti-women, human rights, Europe, NHS etc. The leader admires Putin, Andrew Tate, Trump. Local candidates and members have been found over and over again to share racist views, so have many many Refrom voters. It's a very low bar - unless of course the voter finds these types of people and ideas to run the country akin to their own levels of shitness.

You talk about dismissive attitudes, why are Reform voters dismissing the awfulness of Reform that is right there, in front of their noses? Have you ever tried to get anyone to see actual facts regarding Reform and actual facts as to why the state of this country isn't down to immigration? Well, I have. They don't want to listen, learn, be balanced. Yeah, they're stupid.

This is exactly it. We received a Labour leaflet, which outlined what they were going to do for the local area, and what they are currently doing (the councillors in this area are great and always out and about helping/doing stuff)
Reform on the other hand - a leaflet with "stop the boats" and "Britain for the British" type bollocks.
(What does that even mean?!
Nowhere saying what they'll do for the local area.
Yet people saying they'll vote for them.
It's boggling.

It’s obnoxious to call people ‘stupid’ just because they have different political views and vote differently to yourself. It’s the go-to position for so many smug, middle class Labour supporters to do that. I used to be a Labour voter but both they and the Tories have failed massively and are as bad as each other in different ways. That’s why people are looking to an alternative to the traditional 2 party domination. Hence the massive swing to Reform.

Whilst some Reform voters may well be racist, it’s really simplistic and patronising to brand them all as racist and/or stupid. Yes, immigration is a massive issue. But many people are also fed up with the vast number of people on benefits for ‘anxiety’ and other BS conditions. Reform has made a big show of cutting the benefits bill for people who are work-shy, that is a very popular move for many hard-working people who see their taxes being pissed up the wall.

Labour and the Tories really have only got themselves to blame for failing miserably to tackle the issues that matter to most people, and instead have pandered to the middle-class bleeding hearts in the SE for too long. (Oh, and by the way, there are plenty of racists amongst both Labour and Conservatives parties, they just try to hide it better…)

You don’t vote at all?

QED.

Yes, Reform might be some of that.

Yet people still think they will be better off with them than with the current lot.

What does that tell you?

Immigration not a big deal fur you? Absolutely.

But why not try to understand that it is a big deal for others.

This is exactly how or came to Brexit, which could have been avoided with a frank discussion about the issues around it.

People are voting Reform because they see no alternative, Tories had 14 years and totally messed it up.
Within days of coming into Office, Starmer was embroiled in expense scandals, then WFA a few months later...

When a local Labour councillor i know says "i wouldn't vote Labour (with Starmer in charge)" you know something is very very wrong.

Starmer is a figure of mirth, same thing happened with Bojo... no one is listening to him.

It is rather odd to vote in a local council election based on a national issue (immigration). These councillors who are being elected this week have absolutely nothing to do with and no influence on immigration policy.
Let me repeat what others have said on this topic. Immigration does affect Local Government because schools where they have to cope with immigrant children are financed locally.
Housing of Asylum seekers is the RESPONSIBILITY of local authorities.

You didn’t understand my comment, did you?

It wasn’t about which party will “win” by securing a lot of local authority seats.

It was about who in the electorate will be “winners” and “losers” and the fact that those communities who have elected Reform councils will soon discover that they are going to be losers, as have all who have done so previously.

The point is that the Local Authority has zero control over immigration, so it is not a relevant topic for voting at a local election because the people you are electing have no power to control it no matter what they might think about it. And yet some of the electorate are so ignorant that they don’t even understand what powers councils have and what powers central government has and were therefore dumb enough to cast their votes for a council election based on issues over which the council has no control.

Re the Brexit disaster and ‘scrabbling for closer ties’ - you don’t think this is the Brexit voters seeing their wishes potentially being ignored, so reasserting them?
Labour has been forging closer ties with the EU again. You don’t think this may be why Reform is so high in the polls?

We need to start joining some of these dots…

You're absolutely right, immigration does affect local councils.

Local councils, however, have absolutely no ability to influence the national policy which puts that responsibility on them, as I said.

Voting in a local election based on national policy is not actually going to produce any change to that.

I am only interested in evidence and data and cast my votes on that basis. I’m not interested in political parties. Therefore your comment claiming that I should “maybe look at why the party I back has not done well” was nonsensical because I do not “back” or support any political party and never have done.

But they haven't voted in a vacuum. Reform have pitched for their votes with their rhetoric and won them.

It’s astonishing that you’re having to explain this repeatedly to people (presumably) of adult age, but does explain a lot about the idiocy that has been on display in this thread and which permeates much of what purports to be political discourse in the UK.

There is a political vacuum in this country and Reform have stepped in to fill it. Now they will have to step up to the promises they made. Either way it will have been a massive wake up call for the mainstream parties.