What would you do about immigration?

[stateofthem]

I’ve seen an awful lot of political posts here recently, generally displeased with labour (other policies are for a separate thread) and taking hard stances on immigration.

I often feel as though people have a very blinkered view on immigration which does sway the argument. It seems to be either “let everyone in” or “let no one in” as such.

One point I wish to make is that currently you must be in the UK to be able to make an asylum claim. This (in my opinion) is the biggest factor in small boats/mass migration.

If I were in charge I would propose the following:

Re-implement the ability to seek asylum from abroad via one safe legal channel. Enforce that applications must be made via this route (obviously with concessions for no internet, poor English etc).

Applications are reviewed on a case by case basis, and if rejected, a person is placed onto a register explaining the reason for rejection (and possibly a timescale of when they could reapply).

Anyone who does not follow this channel is returned to their country of origin.

Anyone who arrives having not followed this policy is returned to their country of origin.

I appreciate that the above would need a lot of work and investment, and it’s not quite as straightforward as how I set it out, but I feel as if it’s a reasonable response which allows some migrants but not uncontrolled.

at the moment it feels as though both sides of the coin are offering very extreme solutions either way, and I feel as though someone needs to offer a more reasonable and middle way approach.

I am interested to hear others opinions on this, and if you disagree, what would you do instead?

There are approx 40 million Afghans of which half are women or girls. Surely all 20 million of them would have a good claim for asylum in the UK.

I'm sure the resident population wouldn't mind.

If we set up safe routes to discourage illegal entry, I believe those routes would very quickly be overwhelmed. This is likely to be more of a problem as time goes on.

I think we should use our foreign aid budget to support people to stay in their own countries, sort out their own homelands instead of fleeing to the west.

There is rock solid evidence about the figures

Not rock solid - the ONS is in the process of improving overall migration statistics using 'experimental methods' - new data sources are not yet labelled as National Statistics.

Good question. The Aussies got on top of it because they had the political will to do it.

In the UK we have too many vested interests in our dysfunctional system.

Less pressure to do so when you’ve got a paying job, though innit?!

Also, they are not signatories to the ECHR.

Absolutely. They provide a good model that we could follow. They are not seen as a draconian society yet they've managed to get a grip on who enters their country.

Accept only female asylum seekers and children. Women rarely commit crime and without men they will integrate really quickly ( see Ukrainians). Men start wars so let them sort it out. As they cannot reliably be evaluated as to their criminal backgrounds, whether they have committed war crimes or simply do not have any reference points for our society they cannot be admitted. It would also encourage them to sort out their own countries problems or join the fight to establish a decent society so they can be reunited with their family.
Stopping welfare won't be a deterrent at all. We will just sew an upsurge in crime.

If someone has made the journey to the UK because they want to make a better life and work hard, or they are in danger in their own country, I'm all for it.
It needs to be one in, one out though.
There are plenty of knuckledragging, wife beating, white racists we can fuck off to keep numbers stable.

As I said

*Above all, I don’t know, and I am mistrustful of people who tried to tell me, what problems immigration causes.

Very much of the debate seems to take as accepted fact the supposition the immigration causes problems. I just don’t know. I’m aware that there are stresses and strange in different parts of our different communities. Nevertheless, I’m not clear how much of all this is attributable to immigration and for what reasons.*

I’m not sure it’ll ever be voted in here but they have a centre left gov and no party would change it.

Still takes the same amount of time

Maybe that's half the issue in UK then

Oh ffs. Didn’t take long

@MynameisnotJohn I completely agree with you, and with shabana mahmood. I can only hope that if she is forced to water down her reforms, the conservatives and reform hold labour to account about it. The germans are sending back Afghans who don’t qualify for asylum. Other comparable European countries send back a higher proportion of failed asylum seekers from every country - it’s not just about the ECHR but about the abuse of litigation ad infinitem and that needs to stop.

On legal migration, we should simplify the system for high skill/high salary people. On low wage migration, we need to keep the changes that have been introduced regarding students bringing families etc and go further to prevent migration to low quality courses, sort out overstaying, extend ILR and deny access to benefits until citizenship.

overall, we need to have an honest conversation that is not sidetracked by the idea that limiting immigration is racist and we can live in a utopian world. Our economy is not growing significantly despite all the migration that is claimed to be essential to it. We have added over 10 million people very quickly compared to historical norms (go and see what net migration was in the 90s…). Lots of very nice left leaning people claim that the increase in population is only an issue because the government has “failed to invest” in infrastructure but with what? They haven’t had a corresponding rise in GDP. Especially in the last few years - adding half a million people is nearly 1 per cent of the population when the economy isn’t growing even at that, certainly not when adjusted for inflation. If you add more people but have no more resources, guess what happens? People get poorer on average, which is what is happening - per capita, we are getting poorer. People then say “well tax the rich” and redistribute it - which is all very well, but those people will leave, or cut their hours so they earn less, both of which are happening. Immigration should follow growth, it is not, of itself, generally a source of growth save potentially at the level of the entrepreneur/very highly skilled, who we seem to punish with a system aimed at trying to make it difficult for all migrants because we can’t be honest about what we actually need to do to control immigration.

What I meant is you’re less likely to need to be seeking paid employment at all when you’re in paid employment, but even if you are job hunting, the fact that you’re in paid employment makes it less urgent to find other paid employment, so you‘re probably applying or needing to apply for fewer jobs.

Hmm not if you are on redundancy notice

Yes it sounds very similar. We also have the lovely variety of food places but also unfortunately a lot of dodgey barbers to money launder. I also can’t afford to move but once my kids leave I will do all I can to get out of here. Although I worry about how the changes to the area will affect the price of my house. I can’t help but feel bitter as if my government doesn’t care about me. I am trying my best to be a good citizen whilst people around me trash the place the bend the rules to make money that they send home. A lot of the world think we are idiots and wouldn’t put up with it in their own countries. I have not voted for Reform but understand why people are tempted. You feel powerless when you live in a poor area and are negatively affected by immigration. You can’t talk about how you feel and it pushes you to the right.

Agree 100%, sounds like where I live. I can't afford to move either. There has been relentless gaslighting by the govt and liberal left media.

Immigration impacts most negatively on those at the bottom of society and that's why it's such a toxic issue. Those are the people most likely to be told they're racist and ignorant and that they need to shut up.

Yes being relentlessly positive about all types of immigration is definitely a luxury belief. If politicians lived on my street for a week they would get a dose of reality.

Excellent post.

It's easy for posh rich people who don't live in areas affected to have Utopian dreams but it's not the reality most of us are living. Most of us are getting poorer in real terms (my pay 'rise' is in fact a £100 cut per year in real terms according to the ONS tool) and services are worse. Hence Reform.

The legal system is also something that needs looking at because at the moment we have lawyers getting rich off enabling men convicted of appalling crimes to stay in this country, with no thought at all - seemingly - to the human rights of their victims.

Many of the grooming gang survivors are retraumatised because their abusers (even those convicted who got piss poor sentences and now out again) are still living close to them. My reading of the evidence available is that the grooming gang survivors have had far far less public money to support them than their abusers. I don't think the majority of the population are in favour of that at all. And still no legal accountability for the public servants who not only failed to do their jobs but helped the rapists. Not even job losses.

The girl who was attacked by the Egyptian illegal immigrant who got £500 and a plane ticket to leave said she felt that he was essentially paid for sexually assaulting her. She said she's had no support and now does not feel safe.

It's totally messed up and the opposite of a system which protects everyone's human rights - it's only protecting the human rights of the select few.

I would rejoin the EU and cooperate with all EU counties to process and house asylum seekers as a united front. The "small boats" (ugh, that phrase) problem is due to Brexit. I am sympathetic with asylum seekers, so I am not in favour of mistreating them in any way. A better system is clearly needed, however.

I am one hundred percent in favour of free movement within the EU. I wouldn't object to restrictions on benefits if you haven't been in the country for at least X amount of years - that seems sensible to me. However, I doubt this is costing the country as much as Farage would like us all to think. I'd love to hear him cite his sources now and again.

I think EU pensioners should be allowed to settle here with certain caveats on healthcare - that to me seems like net profit as they would be drawing money from abroad to spend over here.

Many countries encourage push backs or turn around policies. Many countries will also stand back and watch people down and prosecute any boats in the area that offer aid. I'd say all of that is a breach of human rights law and many legal experts agree.

Agree. I’ve just googled, job seekers allowance for over 25-year-olds is up to £95.55/week and people only get it for about 6 months.
Why should they spend a big chunk of their week doing community service for just over £3/hour instead of focusing on getting a new job?