What would you do about immigration?

[stateofthem]

I’ve seen an awful lot of political posts here recently, generally displeased with labour (other policies are for a separate thread) and taking hard stances on immigration.

I often feel as though people have a very blinkered view on immigration which does sway the argument. It seems to be either “let everyone in” or “let no one in” as such.

One point I wish to make is that currently you must be in the UK to be able to make an asylum claim. This (in my opinion) is the biggest factor in small boats/mass migration.

If I were in charge I would propose the following:

Re-implement the ability to seek asylum from abroad via one safe legal channel. Enforce that applications must be made via this route (obviously with concessions for no internet, poor English etc).

Applications are reviewed on a case by case basis, and if rejected, a person is placed onto a register explaining the reason for rejection (and possibly a timescale of when they could reapply).

Anyone who does not follow this channel is returned to their country of origin.

Anyone who arrives having not followed this policy is returned to their country of origin.

I appreciate that the above would need a lot of work and investment, and it’s not quite as straightforward as how I set it out, but I feel as if it’s a reasonable response which allows some migrants but not uncontrolled.

at the moment it feels as though both sides of the coin are offering very extreme solutions either way, and I feel as though someone needs to offer a more reasonable and middle way approach.

I am interested to hear others opinions on this, and if you disagree, what would you do instead?

Which countries have a legal route for refugees to the UK?

I agree!

When does a boy become a man? At 13? 16? 18? What if he is assumed to be older because non-white children tend to be adultified? What if he is older and his family naturally lie about his age to get him to safety and they are found out...and treated like liars, not like desperate folk?

Yes, you have specialist knowledge of the system and you help people. Great. I respect that.

But look at this thread and at the wider UK culture and you will see what I mean regarding gender stereotypes, and lack of respect for the integrity of brown family lives.

And dividing women from men and bringing them in disproportionate numbers will serve British patriarchy one way or another, sorry.

Or me

Have you got stats to back up that most do not work? Do you mean after asylum is granted?

Can you let us know which of the provisions and protections of the ECHR (set up by Britain) you'd particularly like to see removed ?

This all exists. Asylum seekers cannot work…they are on very low sums …not UK mainstream benefits..lower

It’s the same here language tests and proof of ability to support self i.e. money in the bank

My suggestion would be to throw all the racist Reform / BNP / fascists out. God knows who'd want 'em but they could join their mates on the Costas, Dubai and in Asia. That would make a lot of extra room for hard working, tax paying individuals who don't want to exist solely on benefits and who value education and are happy to work in jobs the lazy racists think are beneath them.

Agree…but after 4 months in hospital..my experience of carers from Romania, Phillipines, many African countries, India and more was that they were spectacularly caring often qualified as midwives etc…really astounding people. I’m forever grateful they would suffer 12 hour shifts with an hour travel each way …so much good…food, vibrancy and more comes from immigration and has done for 100s of years. The world is globalised

Other working people are not my enemy and falling for that divide and rule is really sad

A boy becomes a man at 18 as he is then an adult. I understand that creates a difficult situation at that stage but life will always have cut offs at some point to try to prioritise those who are more vulnerable. As long as there are other open means for seeking asylum then families who want to travel as a group or with older teens could utilise those avenues instead like I said.

"What if he is assumed to be older because non-white children tend to be adultified?" This would be investigated and need to be proven by the home office to be the case as is the process currently anyway if its suspected that someone has given an incorrect date of birth. It's why it's so important that professionals working with unaccompanied or newcomer children are trained to address unconscious bias. This is something I've come across before and called people out on before.

"What if he is older and his family naturally lie about his age to get him to safety and they are found out...and treated like liars, not like desperate folk?"

Again, this is not uncommon in the asylum process and the home office is aware that people do this for valid reasons related to trauma, this would also be argued by a solicitor specialising in that type of law. There are plenty of people asylum seekers come across who give bad advice so this is not a new thing. Creating a safer route may make it less likely that people would feel the need to lie because there's an accessible pathway for women and children or families with adult men. When you're reliant on spending a huge amount of what's often family money, that only serves to increase the desperation people feel to be successful in their application because they've often sunk huge amounts of family savings into being trafficked out. Having an accessible route would also possibly connect people to more solid and reliable legal advice on the process so they can make more informed decisions.

British patriarchy will unfortunately thrive irregardless let's be honest, we live in a society that's intentionally structured against women, particularly women from minority/global majority or marginalised groups. But truthfully I'm not sure there's a way to solve that without dismantling much wider structures which is inter generational work. I do think it's important to try to create space and safety for women most impacted by those barriers though. Especially those as I say who don't have male relatives who can support them and who are at immediate risk. We already have very disproportionate numbers is my point. I'm talking about finding ways to balance that not simply flip it.

Afghanistan. ARP scheme. I think it has now closed but they are processing some of the cases still.

I taught in a a school which had several refugees that came to the UK this way, hence familiar with this scheme.

There was/is also a scheme for Ukrainian refugees.

Most countries make provisions to take refugees from war torn countries.

@Sophiehoney "I'd make it safer and easier, that's what I'd do. All welcome, it's a free world. Borders are imaginary lines"

Have you told the rest of the world that? Because most of them won't agree with you, from China to Greece to Pakistan and Fiji. Whilst your vision is borne of benevolence, it is currently untenable. Even philanthropy has to have a proper structure in order to benefit those in need whilst sustaining infrastructure, health care, education and security for everyone. If you want a world without borders you need to formulate that structure. Who will govern and who will choose those governing bodies for example?

Where are you getting your info from?!?!

A local restaurant in my area was recently caught employing several illegal immigrants. It happens all the time. If it didn't, they wouldn't come here.

I've lived all over the UK but in one area, my first rented house was in a street where at least a third of my neighbours were stay at home mums and didn't speak a word of English. They came to the UK via arranged marriages. Their kids then learned English once they started school.

I lived in France for a while and learned French. It's incredibly rude to make no effort to learn the language of the country you live in!

Anyone who can look at the suffering and oppression of Afghan women and say that “we don’t want them” is not somebody whose opinion I would value.

How many people would you allow in? I have never heard anyone give an actual figure? 500k a year? 1million? 10million? Bearing in mind that we have a housing crisis, corridor care in hospitals and millions of people here that are living in poverty.

Even women who left due to oppression face racism and rejection in thr UK, it's a myth that an Afghan woman on her own will be more welcomed, even if she was 'westernized', spoke English, left Islam and works there is still a sentiment that she shouldn't be in the UK because someone British could have done her job and she is accessing healthcare for free, her asylum case costed money and she should have stayed and tried to change her country. The racism and inacceptance remains always by contrast see how white Ukranians are treated. Nothing you could do would change the racism cloaked as immigration concerns they are only concerned when you are brown that is the bottom line and it makes me feel incredibly disappointed when I see or read mixed or brown people stand with Reform and Restore and talk about anti immigration, like a poster above said refugee status should be temporary and those having kids here, meanwhile it was alright for her refugee grandmother to settle here. It's like they don't realise they too are included in the racism they think they are another tier or different but it's all part of a plan and they could well be the next targeted group like how the conversation was about illegals, but then legals too.. refugee Afghan bad, refugee Ukranian good... it's all deeply dehumanising and disgusting.

@coulditbeme2323 we don't want you either but alas we're stuck innit

First things first we have to differentiate between refugees and economic migrants. Now we aren’t likely to get many according to the rules as in refugees are supposed to seek asylum in the nearest safe country. So we need to lead the way in terms of getting people stuck in camps and situations like that over here and someplace safe. Data indicates refugees will usually seek to return home once whatever crisis exists from their origin abates. The fact that refugees and migrants are lumped in the same box is unhelpful. I am personally okay with as the 7th wealthiest nation globally shouldering a bit more than others.

I think there is a case to be made for a comprehensive citizenship test for those that wish to move here. They need to be fluent in English (and or Welsh). I’m less bothered about just hoovering up the best and brightest from around the world and more so people who feel a cultural compatibility with us and would seek to become British overtime.

I’d also like a three tiered system with commonwealth countries given an easier time of emigrating here followed by any non commonwealth ex-colony of ours. These nations and their ancestors are partially responsible for why we rank so highly as a modern nation and fairs fair they should be able to participate in that success and opportunity now.

We have to pursue ruthlessly any human traffickers. Given there are people trafficked and dismantle any criminal networks particularly the elements of any organisations that operate domestically. Trafficked victims who are discovered should be offered temporary residency and support and a pathway to stay if they so wish.

An awful lot of these things are not things we can just enact on our own. They are going to require careful diplomacy and working with ally nations to make any headway. I think the nonsense about Brexit being good for reducing immigration needs to be put front and center in any discussions as our exiting the EU made it harder not easier to co-ordinate our borders effectively.

I think where possible we should keep reviewing infrastructure requirements and adjust overtime so we need more doctors and nurses? It should be easier to plug gaps in what we need. I don’t want to lose a social safety net. However we need a complete retooling of the benefits system as there are now generational patterns of people languishing on benefits, and classifying them all as workshy chancers there has been a learned helplessness that’s been inculcated in some communities that just some sort of draconian economic policy isn’t going to shift.

I’d also like to ensure broadly even figures between men and women settling here as upending the population balance even by a minor amount has social issues downstream.

First things first we have to differentiate between refugees and economic migrants. Now we aren’t likely to get many according to the rules as in refugees are supposed to seek asylum in the nearest safe country. So we need to lead the way in terms of getting people stuck in camps and situations like that over here and someplace safe. Data indicates refugees will usually seek to return home once whatever crisis exists from their origin abates. The fact that refugees and migrants are lumped in the same box is unhelpful. I am personally okay with as the 7th wealthiest nation globally shouldering a bit more than others.

I think there is a case to be made for a comprehensive citizenship test for those that wish to move here. They need to be fluent in English (and or Welsh). I’m less bothered about just hoovering up the best and brightest from around the world and more so people who feel a cultural compatibility with us and would seek to become British overtime.

I’d also like a three tiered system with commonwealth countries given an easier time of emigrating here followed by any non commonwealth ex-colony of ours. These nations and their ancestors are partially responsible for why we rank so highly as a modern nation and fairs fair they should be able to participate in that success and opportunity now.

We have to pursue ruthlessly any human traffickers. Given there are people trafficked and dismantle any criminal networks particularly the elements of any organisations that operate domestically. Trafficked victims who are discovered should be offered temporary residency and support and a pathway to stay if they so wish.

An awful lot of these things are not things we can just enact on our own. They are going to require careful diplomacy and working with ally nations to make any headway. I think the nonsense about Brexit being good for reducing immigration needs to be put front and center in any discussions as our exiting the EU made it harder not easier to co-ordinate our borders effectively.

I think where possible we should keep reviewing infrastructure requirements and adjust overtime so we need more doctors and nurses? It should be easier to plug gaps in what we need. I don’t want to lose a social safety net. However we need a complete retooling of the benefits system as there are now generational patterns of people languishing on benefits, and classifying them all as workshy chancers there has been a learned helplessness that’s been inculcated in some communities that just some sort of draconian economic policy isn’t going to shift.

I’d also like to ensure broadly even figures between men and women settling here as upending the population balance even by a minor amount has social issues downstream.

First things first we have to differentiate between refugees and economic migrants. Now we aren’t likely to get many according to the rules as in refugees are supposed to seek asylum in the nearest safe country. So we need to lead the way in terms of getting people stuck in camps and situations like that over here and someplace safe. Data indicates refugees will usually seek to return home once whatever crisis exists from their origin abates. The fact that refugees and migrants are lumped in the same box is unhelpful. I am personally okay with as the 7th wealthiest nation globally shouldering a bit more than others.

I think there is a case to be made for a comprehensive citizenship test for those that wish to move here. They need to be fluent in English (and or Welsh). I’m less bothered about just hoovering up the best and brightest from around the world and more so people who feel a cultural compatibility with us and would seek to become British overtime.

I’d also like a three tiered system with commonwealth countries given an easier time of emigrating here followed by any non commonwealth ex-colony of ours. These nations and their ancestors are partially responsible for why we rank so highly as a modern nation and fairs fair they should be able to participate in that success and opportunity now.

We have to pursue ruthlessly any human traffickers. Given there are people trafficked and dismantle any criminal networks particularly the elements of any organisations that operate domestically. Trafficked victims who are discovered should be offered temporary residency and support and a pathway to stay if they so wish.

An awful lot of these things are not things we can just enact on our own. They are going to require careful diplomacy and working with ally nations to make any headway. I think the nonsense about Brexit being good for reducing immigration needs to be put front and center in any discussions as our exiting the EU made it harder not easier to co-ordinate our borders effectively.

I think where possible we should keep reviewing infrastructure requirements and adjust overtime so we need more doctors and nurses? It should be easier to plug gaps in what we need. I don’t want to lose a social safety net. However we need a complete retooling of the benefits system as there are now generational patterns of people languishing on benefits, and classifying them all as workshy chancers there has been a learned helplessness that’s been inculcated in some communities that just some sort of draconian economic policy isn’t going to shift.

I’d also like to ensure broadly even figures between men and women settling here as upending the population balance even by a minor amount has social issues downstream.

Which people are you asking me about? My comment was specifically about Afghan women.

How many Afghan women would you let in? There are around 20 million.

I'd ensure that any immigrant convicted of a violent or sexual offence, or any offence attracting a custodial sentence of more than 12 months would be deported and ILR cancelled. No negotiation, no delays.

Well that's stupid because you could well be sending them back to get murdered or tortured which is disproportionate.

Honestly the stupidity in the comments here no wonder Farage is running rings on you lot.