AIBU to think a two-day suspension for bringing a knife is too lenient?

[Rodion]

What punishments have similar issues incurred at other schools?

A new student who only only arrived 2 weeks ago brought a knife to school. It was found by a teacher when they had to move his bag as he'd left it in the way. As the teacher picked it up the knife fell out. It was a weapon-y knife as opposed to 'just' a kitchen knife (although they obviously can be used as deadly weapons too) or pen knife. He's recently turned 13 which seems so young to me. Police were called to school and spoke to him and I obviously have no idea what their consequences may or may not be, but the school's punishment is a 2 day suspension. Fellow students were all shocked at how short the suspension is - much less serious things have historically incurred far longer. Thankfully eveyone seems to think the kid is an idiot for doing this and he hasn't gained any respect, but there's a general air of outrage that something so grave gets so little consequence. That said, it is perhaps part of a pattern of things not getting taken seriously by the new head. Lots of bullying has received nothing but a telling off recently.

I am curious about how such things have been handled at other schools. In my head an expulsion would seem reasonable but I have nothing to base that on really.

They'd be suspended and likely expelled.

On the face of it this does feel too lenient. However, there will be so much you don’t know about this child and his circumstances.

Very true, especially given the mid-year moving schools. I genuinely hope he gets some help in his life as it sounds like he's not on a good path. But whatever the circumstances, the safety of all students has to be taken seriously enough and I do feel concerned that it may not have been.

I am going to be blunt and say I really don’t care about the ‘child’s experiences’.

We need to have an absolute no nonsense approach with this knife problem. If I was a head it would instant expulsion and if I was head of law/police I would impose one year instant prison sentence for knife carrying on first offence, 3 on second and exponentially onwards and upwards.

My DD was suspended for 3 days for refusing to wear her tie, and another kid got a warning for attacking another child completely unprovoked.

The school's priorities seem very wrong.

The pupil would be immediately expelled at our school.

It definitely sounds too lenient, but the child may have been physically bullied in the past and was carrying it as some sort of misguided self-defence, so there may be more to it than you know.

Yes i suppose that's possible. But he definitely wasn't being bullied at this school and had loosely made some friends already (albeit with the most troublesome couple of boys). It was also the type of knife you'd have to know where to get (I.e. not just snuck from home) which suggests, at least to me, being involved in some more nefarious things.

With possibly one exception, all of the secondary schools Ive worked with would permanently exclude any student who brought a knife into school, irrespective of the circumstances. In some instances, the school would suspend initially whilst an incident was being investigated but would then move this to a permanent exclusion if it was confirmed that a student had been in possession of a weapon. The school thst would not always permanently exclude would at least impose a long suspension. Two days is madness and sends a very worrying signal to other students.

Er yes.

My thought would be that the student was suspended for 2 days initially to give them time to carry out a full investigation, rather than that being the final and total punishment given out. Also worth mentioning that parents wouldn't be given any information about this, and that school rumour mills are often incorrect or exaggerated.

The children in our very ordinary, rural compressive have been warned bringing a blade to school is instant permanent exclusion. A few years ago, a very reliable, hard working (16 year old) student was found to have a small pocket knife in his coat pocket which he used regularly to cut baling twine on his family farm and had just forgotten was in his pocket. He was initially suspended for 5 days but the governors (rightly, in my opinion) decided not to permanently exclude, but it was genuinely touch and go what the outcome would be.

Expulsion, no question, to protect the other students and to draw a hard line in the sand.

What’s happened to him in the past is irrelevant, he should be expelled. No other student or teacher should have to risk being at school with someone with a knife.

I've sat on several PEX panels and IRP panels for exclusions related to knives.

I'd say it's entirely dependent on context. Pretty much all of the upheld exclusions have involved the individual at the very least making threats, showing off the knife or having a history of incidents which showed a serious escalation.

Just having a knife on their person is generally not enough to say one way or the other.

I think knives and the cavalier attitude to carrying them are terrifying. But why was he carrying it?

Immediate and permanent suspension in my ds school. It actually happened and that was the consequence.

Instant exclusion.

It is certainly something that could (should?) lead to permanent exclusion. However, there is almost certainly some significant safeguarding work going on around this child and the school will be doing some very detailed risk assessments to make sure other students and staff are kept safe. The context will be everything.

I'm curious about how you have so much info on this student and the kind of knife it was. Do you work at the school?

Headteacher here - permanent exclusion at my school.

Carrying a knife is a criminal offence, unless it’s obvious you are going fishing ir similar.

Shocking response from the school IMO

Excluded or not, he will be going to school somewhere. Permanent exclusion doesn't make children disappear; it just moves them somewhere else, with someone else's children.

So exclusion is punitive but doesn't prevent the behaviour. A more meaningful consequence would be something that does. For example, daily bag and pocket checks. No access to a locker. Perhaps restrictions on what he does at break times. Compulsory attendance at programmes to educate about the dangers of carrying.

It isnt as easy to permanently suspend a pupil who is looked after and accommodated. Given he was moved school mid year, the boy might have been removed from his home for reasons you will never know.I think the 2 days initial suspension is for an investigation first.

Welcome to a system that prioritises lowering suspensions and permanent exclusions for the trouble minority; over the learning and safety of the majority. This instead of providing proper support and care for these kids because… finance!

It may be that he was already being moved on from another school via a managed move, given the timing. That doesn’t excuse this actions at all, but perhaps the school has to follow some protocols before further action can be taken.

In general, carrying a knife with intent should result in a permanent exclusion.

I agree. This problem has now become so severe and yet somehow normalised - we need a zero tolerance policy.