AIBU to think a two-day suspension for bringing a knife is too lenient?

[Rodion]

What punishments have similar issues incurred at other schools?

A new student who only only arrived 2 weeks ago brought a knife to school. It was found by a teacher when they had to move his bag as he'd left it in the way. As the teacher picked it up the knife fell out. It was a weapon-y knife as opposed to 'just' a kitchen knife (although they obviously can be used as deadly weapons too) or pen knife. He's recently turned 13 which seems so young to me. Police were called to school and spoke to him and I obviously have no idea what their consequences may or may not be, but the school's punishment is a 2 day suspension. Fellow students were all shocked at how short the suspension is - much less serious things have historically incurred far longer. Thankfully eveyone seems to think the kid is an idiot for doing this and he hasn't gained any respect, but there's a general air of outrage that something so grave gets so little consequence. That said, it is perhaps part of a pattern of things not getting taken seriously by the new head. Lots of bullying has received nothing but a telling off recently.

I am curious about how such things have been handled at other schools. In my head an expulsion would seem reasonable but I have nothing to base that on really.

I don't work in a school or know much about how they work now. But, looking at this objectively, I wonder if there are other factors at play. Perhaps excluding the child pushes him out of a structured environment into a chaotic home life where he will be absorbing even more shocking behaviours. If teaching or police or other staff have spoken to him perhaps they feel that other students and teachers are safe (as he won't be bringing a knife again), and the best place for him to be is in a nurturing school environment to learn how to be a productive member of society rather than continue down a wrong path.
But, clearly that's trying to look through a positive lens and it may just be a very inept school head!

That is outrageous. If he has been bullied, has a hard home life, is looked after, these are all additionally concerning factors as that means he is not carrying a knife simply to look hard, but to actively protect himself. If he returned to school I would be removing my child. My child is not a tool for this boy to learn how to behave in society, they are a person to be protected.

Seconding this.

I agree with you. Whilst there needs to be zero-tolerance on bringing knives to school, punishment for this isn't enough to solve the underlying issues that lead to some young people getting involved in violent crime.

I found these blog posts very insightful. The writer, Adam Fouracre, is the brother of Lloyd Fouracre, who was murdered in an unprovoked attack in 2005 on the eve of his 18th birthday. It wasn't a knife attack, but in several ways it wasn't dissimilar to one. Two 19-year-olds were convicted of Lloyd's murder and Adam met one of them in prison.

Meeting a murderer - Stand Against Violence

An unlikely collaboration - Stand Against Violence

Maybe being suspended for longer was the outcome the kid would prefer - would save him having to bunk off.

Surely, even if it were a managed move, this child has crossed a line that means he should be expelled. He is obviously not coping in mainstream setting and keeping him there is dangerous for everyone, including the child himself. He needs to be in a secure environment. He could well have had previous traumas but he cannot be allowed to continue at this school. I would hope that the police and social will be keeping a very close eye on him.

*services

As harsh as it sounds I don't care what has happened to this child to make them bring a knife to school, I don't want a knife carrying children in the classroom with my child.

I have a 13yo DS and it's expulsion at his (inner city / community / all boys) school. As it should be.

Obviously I'd expect this to be flagged up to every service possible and this child to be "on the radar" for the protection of others and themselves.

Were the police called and if not, why not?

I am amazed by this.
A 13 year old girl brought a knife in to my child’s school and she was immediately expelled.
She had no previous bad behaviour.

I see the police were called, missed that bit

It's a chance I'd be incredibly unhappy for my son's school to take.

I don't think the knife carrying child should be expelled and then left to figure things out for themselves but I don't think they should be in school. The majority (of non knife carrying) students need to be protected here.

The child found with the knife needs to be referred to relevant services and offered appropriate help and support but I'd be at my son's school, making a huge fuss if a child found with a knife was given a 2 day suspension.

Yes same as ours. Could not care less about what reasons or background this child is coming from or what issues they have. Imagine if it was used and hurt someone - expulsion is the only way to go.

There aren't relevant services. The excluded child would almost certainly be sent to another main stream school.

There is so much naivety on this threat. Both about support available and about how many teenagers bring knives to school.

Yes, when ds started high school he had to sign a contract to say he would never bring a weapon to school and he agreed he would be expelled. This was years ago.

Please feel free to enlighten me / us?

Irrelevant what the background is. I'd not be happy with my child returning to that school if that boy is still there and I think I'd be raising it with the head and chair of governors.

I am sure that it is area dependent. I am in outer London and teach in primary. Ex-pupils tell us that they know which students are carrying knives and which are in the gangs. They don't give names to us of course. One school put in arches which stopped them bringing them in to school, but the same teenagers are still carrying on the streets. The majority say that they carry for defence only and would never use it unless they needed to.

The Youth Offending Teams do run programmes but getting students on to these services is hard. They are stretched like all public services.

Unless they are charges and given a custodial sentence, a student would not be put into a secure school or even a special school for bringing a knife to school. They would be moved to another mainstream.

All that said, maybe my local experience isn't generalised across the country and I am overly pessimistic because of that.

Are you in Scotland? Because it’s really really hard to expel a student in Scotland. My nephews school had a similar incident and the kid only got suspended for 3 days, I was shocked. Absolute madness.

It’s expulsion at our secondary school. It was also expulsion at the primary school - a Y3 boy was expelled for it (he was already worryingly on the school radar for issues).

Im in the south east and its the same here

The police wont take significant action, if any. Where I am there are no preventative programmes about knife carrying.

You could refer onto local services to provide emotional support/counselling but they're normally aligned with a school so if the child is suspended or excluded they cant access it or the child doesnt want to engage or the waiting lists are huge.

But some kids arent carrying knives because they need emotional support, they're just carrying knives because they want to cause trouble or be feared.

Haven’t RTFT but instant expulsion here, even for kids who we think would be better off staying in the school and were not actually a risk.

This should be the way forward.

There's no such thing as an emotional support knife or just carrying for defense:

"Children who’d carried weapons were more likely to say they’d perpetrated violence themselves. 71% said they’d been violent in the past year and 70% said they’d used a weapon to threaten or to hurt someone – compared to 15% and 7% for all 13-17-year-olds."

https://youthendowmentfund.org.uk/behind-the-knife-crime-statistics-understanding-children-who-carry-weapons/

I agree with the 1st part. Theres no point to this post without knowing if the child has ever caused issues with other kids at the school. Its a safeguarding issue and it would be better to solve the issue. The parents need to work with the school!

No point moving the issue onto another local school.