AIBU to worry school topics are overwhelming my son?

[BeWittyZebra]

DH (42)and I (42) have 3 boys (11, 8, 6). Eldest started big school this year (independent) and has honestly thrived settled quickly, made friends, loves that it’s all boys, and has thrown himself into everything (hockey, cricket, science club, beekeeping, music, piano lessons etc).

He’s always been a bright, thoughtful kid and recently started philosophy and an environmental club at school. He’s absolutely loving both, which I would normally be really pleased about. I studied philosophy at uni myself so I do “get it”.

However over the last couple of weeks things have ramped up quite a bit. He’s suddenly decided eating meat is “evil” and that we are “killing animals because of our greed” (his exact words). To be clear, we are absolutely fine with him wanting to be vegetarian whether it’s a phase or not we will support him. We’ve adjusted our shopping and DH and I are cooking separate vegetarian meals for him, so it’s not about refusing to support that.

The issue is more the intensity of it all. Last week he refused to eat the dinner I’d made and had a snack instead because it didn’t contain meat. The next day the same thing happened, and when we sat down together, he refused to join in properly, sulked, and told us we were “evil” for eating meat.

Since then it’s become a bit of a theme, lots of quite intense statements about morality, the planet, humans being selfish etc. I seem to be getting daily moral debates/questions from him and it just feels quite heavy for an 11yo. I’m starting to wonder if he’s a bit overwhelmed by it all? Almost like he’s having a mini existential crisis.

On top of that, it’s not just food he’s now very anti-car and keeps going on about how bad ours is for the environment. He actually came to us with a list of cars we “should” be getting instead, which felt a bit… much for his age.

He’s also started asking quite challenging questions for example, if we’re happy to eat cows, why wouldn’t we eat our dog, what makes one animal different from another, why do we value some and not others etc. I can see where it’s coming from, but again it feels quite intense for his age.

I don’t want to shut him down or dismiss his views.

I’m also, if I’m honest, slightly irritated with the school I completely understand the value of philosophy and environmental awareness, but this is an 11yo and it feels like quite heavy stuff to be taking on so intensely. And we are paying the best part of £30k a year.

AIBU to think this is a bit much and needs reining in? Or should I just let him work through it and support the vegetarian angle properly? And would you speak to the school or leave it?

Would appreciate perspectives, especially if anyone’s had similar with this age group.

What was the comment you made about electric cars?

Can you channel his energy into eco related things? If he’s this passionate he probably does feel overwhelmed by the shittiness and scariness of climate change. It is bleak. But I think the important thing for young people coming to terms with the impacts of humans on the environment is not to let them fall into a pit of doom but actually channel it towards something productive.

you sound like highly educated people, so maybe you can teach him skills that he can apply - like help him understand how to make EVs more accessible, and then write to his local MP to ask for policies towards it. You might laugh but a lot of primaries have these sign ons and having a kid who knows that he can and that it is his right to engage with politics and policy that make up our societies is no bad thing!

direct his anger back towards the system, rather than his family, is what I’m trying to say.

How terribly mean!

This sounds like a totally normal teenage phase to me - I remember being exactly the same for a year or so at a similar (slightly older) age. It really isn't anything to be concerned about IMO.

What on earth? Why?

I went through exactly the same phase as a teenager and so did the majority of my friends. It's very normal. They're asserting their independence and trying to make sense of the world.

Seems really sad to me that people are suggesting shutting him down, telling him to stop challenging you because it’s impolite or just go and google it rather than debating at the dinner table. I grew up hashing out all sorts of ethical and political topics at the table with my siblings and parents and I’m sure it was a positive for us all. And this was a family without a strong educational background (I was the first to go to uni) so it’s not some insufferable posh twat thing.

And at that age, it’s harder to see nuance in human decision making. Talk to him about cognitive dissonance. When I ate meat, I KNEW it went against my morals which hold that animals deserve to live and not be mistreated. And yet I did it anyway. I didn’t try and make up contradictory stories about why it’s ok to eat a cow and not a dog though, which is probably what your son finds infuriating.

Of course you can tell him to wind his neck in.

'Parroting' is such a lazy argument. Surely all of the kids that are happily eating meat are also 'parroting' behaviour and opinions?

He feels that something isn't alright and wants to discuss that with those closest to him.

@BeWittyZebra speak to him, engage with him, tell him the drawbacks.

Presumably you don't know the child so unsure why you're so convinced he's "just being contrary"?

He's asking completely reasonable questions - why is it OK to eat a cow and not a dog. It's a good question if he thought it up, it's equally good if a teacher asked it first and he thought it was a good question. OP says she has a philosophy degree so she should easily be able to handle this question. And quite frankly should be delighted her son is asking it. She can give the answer she believes in. He might have a good counter-point. That is also good!

I’d engage in the conversation, I don’t see how that could be a bad thing.

Ok, he thinks you should get a different car that is better for the environment. What about the environmental impact of getting rid of a car that still works and buying something new? What about the financial impact - we can’t always make the choices the we want to make, because we have other constraints. He’s being very black and white - does he want to get the bus next time he wants a lift? Where does he want to go on holiday and how does he want to get there? Why is he vegetarian and not vegan, does he have no qualms about the dairy industry (I might not ask this because I wouldn’t want to then have to cook vegan meals!)

I wouldn’t be asking these questions as some kind of gotcha! But to show that everything has compromise, no one makes all the environmental decisions they’d like to make, even if they really care about the environment. I’d be saying no one is perfect so maybe let’s work together on some changes we can all make, without turning it into having a go at people for their dietary choices.

I've also been told that most cultures don't eat carnivorous animals. I think their flesh contains more toxins, it's not a nice texture, and it doesn't make economic sense to raise animals that require lots of meat to eat themselves.

You could check this and tell your son @BeWittyZebra

I think he sounds great too. I agree with @BusMumsHoliday.

i’m amazed he’s done so much research on cars! At 11! Impressive! He also sounds very driven and incredibly focussed on fairness. Any chance he might be autisic?

It’s very normal behaviour for around this age I think. They start striving for independence and to develop an identity that’s separate from their parents. But their thoughts patterns are black and white, and they haven’t yet learned about nuance and about how to express opinions in a way that’s respectful to other people.

I grew up debating all sorts of topics with my parents and I think it was really good for me.

I would definitely shut him down and tell him to keep his views to himself now he’s started telling you what you should be doing.

Well it depends on if he has actual convictions or if he's just being a contrary young boy.

As it's come out of nowhere is hedge on contrary 😭

Well presumably OP sent him to a school with an environmental club run by a scientist, and a philosophy club, and allowed/encouraged him to join those clubs. So it's a bit bloody rich to moan that he's learning to think independently

He sounds like a bright young man who's presumably starting to realise that the world is very complex and contradictory, and full of complicated moral dilemmas.

Obviously, don't allow him to cross the line into being rude or demanding that you as a family change your ways if they are working for you, but encourage the conversations and help him develop his ideas and thoughts. It's nice to read about a tween who is thinking about the world rather than staring vacantly at TikTok.

So... parrot the consensus and he's good, parrot anything else and he lacks conviction?

Let kids be kids and encourage curiosity and the courage to challenge.

The cow vs dog question is pretty smart and could raise a really good chat if you went about it well. "The dog is our pet. If cows were kept as pets, we'd probably feel differently about eating them. What do you think about rabbits? Some people have them as pets, some people eat them. In some countries, dogs are eaten. Do you feel differently about dogs being eaten than you do about cows being eaten? Lots of people feel very differently about those things, I wonder why."

He's just doing the 'I know everything and my parents are stupid' thing earlier than most. Engage and discuss with him but don't let him be rude.

She said - a science teacher is running the environment club.

You'd talk to the school and tell them the club is going "overboard" because it's caused DS to have (completely rational) concerns about the environment! They'll be bloody delighted 😂
What do you want, environment club classes sponsored by BP which talk about how the oil spill was just one big misunderstanding?

I'd say something about how humans are animals and lots of animals eat other animals. It's not pretty when a lion eats a zebra but it doesn't make them bad or wrong. That it's his choice to not eat meat but he shouldn't make other people feel bad because they make different choices.

I'd say to him that getting around without a car is pretty tricky as public transport isn't great here and can be very expensive. Electric cars are also very expensive and to just get rid of a car so you can get one that's more environmentally friendly wouldn't be environmentally friendly. If he doesn't want to drive when he's an adult or he wants to get an electric car then that's entirely up to him - but other people are free to make other choices even if he doesn't agree with them. I would however have to agree with him if you have some huge diesel SUV.

On humans being extremely selfish I'd also have to agree with him - but I'd also point out how many people there are out there raising money for charities or rescuing animals or even just feeding the birds in the winter to help them survive.

I'd be encouraging him to think about what he might be able to do himself to improve the world around him rather than telling other people what they should be doing. What could he do in the garden to make it more wildlife friendly? Could he go litter picking in the local park with you? Could he find a way to raise some money for charity?

@BeWittyZebra I went through the same phase as your son when I was 5 and understood that meat was dead animals. I refused to eat anything that had been alive and my parents weren't happy exactly but they didn't want me to starve so made separate meals for me. Noone influenced me. I was (am) a sensitive soul and loved animals and couldn't bear the cruelty of killing them and eating them. It felt like cannibalism might feel to a meat eater.

He has surely been enlightened by school but maybe your son just has a strong moral compass and wants to live accordingly. Greta Thunberg had the same "awakening" at 11 about the environment. Some children are more sensitive than other. It's not easy for the parents but I think it's important to respect your children and their sense of justice and morality or you risk alienating them.

He's just hit the teenage stage of knowing more than his parents a bit early, its very normal. Dinner table debates are great at this stage, had great debates with my family when I was growing up and I really treasure those memories even as I cringe at some of the things I said. Keep talking about these things, ask him questions too rather than just him asking you, try to get him to think critically about his beliefs by showing the example with your own. But remind him that while we are all allowed our own beliefs and allowed to argue them, we are not allowed to be rude to family members about their beliefs.

I went through a similar phase when I was around 10 and still in primary school, so did my eldest DC. I think you're overreacting, possibly because his questions are too uncomfortable for you.