Paramedics made my father go to hospital

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My father has atrial fibrillation. He has had this for years.

He has been told multiple times what to do in the case of an episode of AF. Today, he had one while I was visiting. It took a long time to pass, so in line with his consultant’s plan my mother called 999, after the usual medications had been given at home.

In the time it took for the paramedics to arrive, the attack passed and when they did arrive, it had been nearly an hour since it had ended.

They still made him go to hospital as they “couldn’t rule out a heart attack”, despite my father insisting that he knows his body, knows what an AF episode feels like and knows when it has passed. All he wanted was to go to bed and sleep off the effects of the beta blockers he had taken.

They still essentially made him go to hospital, saying that they would make him sign forms if he didn’t which showed he had refused medical advice. I was present and the paramedics essentially made it sound as though he would be at the back of the queue if it returned and he needed an ambulance again.

Fast forward 10 hours and he’s still in hospital, no doctors available to read his ECG or his blood test results, and he’s been sleeping in a hard plastic chair. AIBU to think this is ridiculous? Paramedics really shouldn’t be encouraging patients to attend hospital when it’s not necessary.

Given that he was well enough to decide to decline medical treatment, it sounds like one or both of you could have taken him to hospital instead of calling an ambulance in the first place. Instead you are now moaning about paramedics doing their job. They wouldn't have refused to send an ambulance had he needed one later but he might not have been the highest priority based on his previous AF instance and not needing to go to hospital urgently.

This

yes he would have been put down as going against medical advice. Unless ur under a detention you cannot be forced to accept treatment or remain in hospital and if u do later need treatment you will still get it

The paramedics did absolutely the right thing! Are you medically trained? I thought not, if they hadn’t taken him and it turned he was having a heart attack and died, they could loose their registration! OP could have easily cancelled the ambulance as she said it had passed but chose not to, which means she was significantly worried about him.

We had quite a fascinating chat ... which supported my feelings that medicine was never my forte ...

Yes. ECGs can only go so far in ruling out heart attacks. Blood tests are gold standard.

Yet your mum called an ambulance.
The paramedics have a professional duty of care and heart attacks can present with various symptoms.
I am sure that you would be very upset if ambulance staff dismissed his symptoms with fatal results.
I hope your dad will be OK.

I suggest that you word your letter as showing up a training need rather than that the paramedics over-reacted.

Why? I can't see anything that the paramedics have done wrong. An ambulance was called for a heart condition, as recommended by a cardiologist. They arrived and advised he go to hospital to be checked out. What possible training do you think they need?

It's your Dad so it's understandable you're upset. But I think you need to take a couple of days to process this because you're not being rational or fair re the paramedics (if course they'd know what AF is)

once your Dad us home & rested you can decide together whether there's actually anything to contact oaks about or not.

Because ambulances aren't taxis and aren't sitting round the corner twiddling their thumbs
There isn't an abundance of ambulances ya know
My colleagues father had a cardiac arrest and waited 40 mins for an ambulance.

Similar happened to my ds2. He had an autistic shutdown and someone called an ambulance. Paramedics talked to me and I said i didn't want him to go to hospital as it would cause him more distress and there was nothing physically wrong with him.

Paramedics ca do an ecg but not a Troponin blood check. It sounds like they suggested going in for this in case they couldn't get back quickly later if needed (very likely of 'an event on rhat always turns mucky'). Sorry fie spag, rhe App is playing up again.
It's frustrating sure but the Paramedics were acting completely correctly imo.
I hope your Dad gets home soon & feels better.

How do you think private healthcare works ?

They are only doing their job and looking at for your father.

being so sure you know your body can be a dangerous road to go down. Even if you do, it only takes being wrong once.

I was diagnosed with a serious heart condition 9.5 years ago.

I’ve been through all of it. Cardiac arrest/AF/the fitting of an ICD etc. Unfortunately the fact my heart was a different construction to the norm meant I wasn’t eligible for ablation.

I went through the AF episodes, the SVT where the heart rate shoots up. I didn’t used to ring 999, because often the episodes would subside, so I would ring 111, and they invariably sent an ambulance.

And after a couple of times when they sent me home I started to think it was a waste of time, but more that I was being a time waster rather than them being wrong iyswim.

And then I had an episode and very nearly didn’t bother “oh it’ll pass soon, it’ll all be ok.” Except I thought maybe I ought to ring just for a bit of advice. And along came the ambulance, and they suggested I go into hospital.

Heart was normal (whatever that is in severe heart failure), most bloods were normal. And then my INR (blood thickness) came back. And it was sky high. So much so that I had to take vitamin k to bring it down. Twice.

if I hadn’t gone in who knows what would have happened.

Three months later I was told my heart was deteriorating and I was called for transplant assessment. Had no idea things were heading the wrong way. Didn’t feel any different, but hey I knew my body.

It wasn’t just the transplant list. It was the urgent transplant list.

I had a heart transplant last year.

Wow. Really? Complain about Paramedics who took someone to hospital after they had called for them, which we should only do if it’s a life or death emergency?
Complajn?!
What on earth have we come to?

Having worked in an ambulance control room for years I totally understand their actions. I presume the original call came in on a category red, get there ASAP, wrong side of the road, through red lights, potentially putting the safety of the crew and others at risk.

The crew would know about the 100 outstanding jobs on the system and also know they couldn't guarantee if he needed help again that night there wouldn't necessarily be a paramedic crew available immediately.

So the safest place for him to be at that moment/for the evening was in A&E.

He absolutely could sign (or decline to sign) a refusal of treatment and it would not in the slightest affect him receiving a further call-out that night. It just couldn't be guaranteed to get there in 8 minutes.

I'm stunned that they called an amb, then got very annoyed that they took him to hospital. Accuse them of bullying for following protocol and then gets more huffy that he's waiting in an assessment unit for hours after being triaged with obs and ecg.

Did the op really think he'd be greeted on arrival by a senior Doctor, assessed and sent on his way within an hour .

Er, why didn't he just sign the form. There were several choices here (inc calling an ambulance, or not, and just leaving A&E). It's unfair to blame professionals for the choices made by the patient and their family!

Agree with this
Ofc Paramedics know what AF is
As part of maintaining their registration they have to have advanced life support (ALS) and renew every 5 years
AF is extensively covered in this course

Similar to when DH refused a stem cell transplant for his bone marrow cancer. The consultant basically said they may refuse to give him chemotherapy drugs or may even remove him from their "list" in the future as he'd refused a recommended treatment. Almost to the stage of bullying! In the event he stuck to his decision, and he's had no problem continuing to get consultations and chemotherapy in the 8 years since. That same bullying consultant said he'd only have 18 months to live without the stem cell transplant - and as I say, it's now 8 years later and he's still with us!

This!

You say you were following the consultant's advice to call an ambulance and go to the hospital but now you're complaining that he was taken to hospital!

I'm not sure that the paramedics were implying that another ambulance wouldn't be sent at all if your DF refused to go to hospital, rather that it may not be a priority call. If he'd refused this time because he "knew" better that the paramedics then called again I wouldn't blame them if they thought it may not actually be an emergency.

Yet an ambulance was called? 🤷🏻‍♀️
A waste of everyone’s time, if he’s so certain what these attacks are and how to manage them.

Fucking hell they can't do right for doing wrong can they?

Yes and OPs dad was offered the paperwork to decline, he just didn't decline.

OP seems to just want the paramedics to say "sure thing your definitely fine" which they cant do and would risk their registration if God forbid he had been having a heart attack

It's the bullying! Wrongly telling him that he "may" not get an ambulance next time it happened, etc. Even the strongest willed patient can succumb to that threat. Completely wrong and the paramedics should be reported for threatening it.