Paramedics made my father go to hospital

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My father has atrial fibrillation. He has had this for years.

He has been told multiple times what to do in the case of an episode of AF. Today, he had one while I was visiting. It took a long time to pass, so in line with his consultant’s plan my mother called 999, after the usual medications had been given at home.

In the time it took for the paramedics to arrive, the attack passed and when they did arrive, it had been nearly an hour since it had ended.

They still made him go to hospital as they “couldn’t rule out a heart attack”, despite my father insisting that he knows his body, knows what an AF episode feels like and knows when it has passed. All he wanted was to go to bed and sleep off the effects of the beta blockers he had taken.

They still essentially made him go to hospital, saying that they would make him sign forms if he didn’t which showed he had refused medical advice. I was present and the paramedics essentially made it sound as though he would be at the back of the queue if it returned and he needed an ambulance again.

Fast forward 10 hours and he’s still in hospital, no doctors available to read his ECG or his blood test results, and he’s been sleeping in a hard plastic chair. AIBU to think this is ridiculous? Paramedics really shouldn’t be encouraging patients to attend hospital when it’s not necessary.

That’s absolutely not what they were insinuating. You said it took them a long time to turn up. What they were inferring to is that if it was in fact a heart attack it would take a long time to arrive and so you’d be on your own to deal with him until they could have arrived. It’s their duty to ensure patients who exhibit signs of a heart attack are seen at hospital as an emergency. If your dad knew he was fine they said he could sign off to say against their wishes he decided not to follow advice.

What are you complaining about?

He must have been seen at the hospital when he arrived otherwise he’d not have had observations and bloods done. He’s unfortunate to have had a long wait, but we all know about waiting times in A&E atm, and it sounds like he was stable, as the staff would have known from his bloods/obs.

The paramedics did their jobs. Your dad went to the hospital, he could have signed the paperwork to say he didn’t want further treatment but he declined to do so. I don’t believe for a second they told him a second ambulance wouldn’t come out if he had a heart attack. It’s not their decision for a start.

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Complain if you want but you will be told exactly the same as what we have been telling you at any point he could of refused treatment and he didn't.

🙄 damned if they do and damned if they don’t. . Fucks sakes.

Well, the gold standard is to have the patient sign the form, which states that the clinician has given their advice and explained the risks involved in declining treatment and that the patient understands this. But, as pointed out, you can't physically force someone to sign a form. Hence the box.

Come on now OP. Stop with the complaints. Last thing the broken NHS needs is people wasting time and resources complaining about staff following protocol.

Bloods will show if he has had a heart attack. It releases an enzyme.

I have had years of AF. I know this scenario so well.

They cannot make him go to hospital. There have been several occasions when paramedics have come out to me and we have looked at their obs together and made a decision for me to stay at home.

On one occasion they were more keen for me to go in and I made the decision not to ... there was a very virulent virus doing the rounds and I knew I would be sitting in the germ soup for hours on end.

On several occasions I have gone in and on one of those occasions I was having a heart attack in top of the AF.

At no point did the paramedics suggest that on the occasion when I decided not to go in I had "bloated my copyboook" and would be bottom of the list if I had to call again. They were very understanding and insisted that I should call every time things got bad and they would always come. They would rather I called.

Your parent has been ill-served.

So you want a paramedic to put their registration on the line? And if he did die and it went to coroners they could lose their job?

You wasted the resources - you called the ambulance and he went despite having a choice not to - and now complaining about it!!
Whole family of victims - you should be ashamed

Bloods will show if he has had a heart attack. It releases an enzyme.

Just to say my blood troponin levels were normal with a right coronary artery that was 94% blocked in one place.

Oh you are just being ridiculous now. Of course Paramedics understand what AF is.

YABVU.
And I say that as someone who has afib and SVT (and its a bad /complicated case) who understands perfectly what's transpired.

Amazed between the 3 of you couldnt go up to a&e without using ambulance resourcing

-You didnt need to call an ambulance

• You could have declined a&e and signed the forms. They were 3 of you not one vulnerable men and a "gang of mean paramedics".
• You can leave a&e any time you like. I've certainly done it when I'm sure I'm back in sinus and been malingering for 7hrs +....

No one is making you do anything.

You are wasting everyone's time and the notion you want to make a complaint to waste MORE time is ludicrous.

Of course you will 🙄

You said the attack ended an hour before they came. You should have cancelled it.

They're damned if they do or don't here I think.

So you want a paramedic to put their registration on the line?

This would not happen. There is a clear protocol for the situation where a patient chooses not to be taken in against their advice. It probably happens to a crew daily.

paroxysmal AF absolutely can cause ischaemia and after an unusually prolonged episode it is often sensible to monitor things.

starting with the ambulance which never should have been called because obviously he knows better than his cardiologist.

Maybe if time wasters like the OP’s family weren’t taking up precious ambulances the wait times for people who are actually ill wouldn’t be so high, and the a&E departments wouldn’t be so full of people who never should have called an ambulance in the first place.

Half the problems with the NHS wouldn’t exist if so many of the public weren’t abusing the resources available.

AF can and does kill people. Doesn’t matter how well you know your symptoms. It only takes one episode to change all that.

But hey he’s an expert. Why even bother with a cardiologist…

well then I hope they put a flag up on the address and refuse to attend to him again. They shouldn’t have to deal with pathetic ungrateful people like you who waste resources.

he could have said no, he wasn’t bullied into it despite what you and him are trying to make out. People like you make me sick as clearly they can’t do anything right. They come you kick off, they don’t come I can guarantee you’d have kicked off

NHS can't win....maybe time for Dad to go private.

I have severe allergies. I only proceed with calling an ambulance if I want to go to the hospital. There is no reason to call one otherwise. I also rarely bother as it’s faster to self transport if I am ambulatory.

since I know my body and my reactions, I often just self treat and not call anyone.

there is no protocol that says just get checked out by the paramedics. That phone call means you are triggering a process and seeing it through to the end. Sometimes it is necessary.

(I’m lucky that I have a better health system and my a&e trip last week had me in a bed with an IV in my arm within 5 minutes of walking in the door.)

You won't get the response you want.

The ambulance service strongly recommended taking your father to hospital for a full assessment. You have altered your account of what the paramedics said from insinuated to definitely said another ambulance wouldn't be sent if your father had a heart attack. Your word against theirs.

Secondly when there are numerous patients in A&E or the AMU over a bank holiday weekend it's not unusual for lengthy waits and patients must be prioritised.

Having acknowledged your father should never have been admitted to hospital, how can you argue he had a greater priority than any other patient in the hospital today to be seen first? His observations clearly didn't highlight any rationale for moving him to a higher priority.

I recently had a chance to see a paramedic call out first hand. And despite this not being for anything cardiac, they rigged up an ECG and ran several traces with printouts to provide the A&E unit with.

(They had to ask me to turn off some networking kit, as it was interfering with the trace).

Her story has repeatedly changed throughout