Paramedics made my father go to hospital

[wecangoupupup]

My father has atrial fibrillation. He has had this for years.

He has been told multiple times what to do in the case of an episode of AF. Today, he had one while I was visiting. It took a long time to pass, so in line with his consultant’s plan my mother called 999, after the usual medications had been given at home.

In the time it took for the paramedics to arrive, the attack passed and when they did arrive, it had been nearly an hour since it had ended.

They still made him go to hospital as they “couldn’t rule out a heart attack”, despite my father insisting that he knows his body, knows what an AF episode feels like and knows when it has passed. All he wanted was to go to bed and sleep off the effects of the beta blockers he had taken.

They still essentially made him go to hospital, saying that they would make him sign forms if he didn’t which showed he had refused medical advice. I was present and the paramedics essentially made it sound as though he would be at the back of the queue if it returned and he needed an ambulance again.

Fast forward 10 hours and he’s still in hospital, no doctors available to read his ECG or his blood test results, and he’s been sleeping in a hard plastic chair. AIBU to think this is ridiculous? Paramedics really shouldn’t be encouraging patients to attend hospital when it’s not necessary.

Please don’t do this. Paramedics have a hard enough time as it is.
I don’t see how the terms bullying and coercion apply here either.
People are so quick to ‘put in a complaint’ which has significant cost for the NHS in terms of time, money, paperwork, not to mention the stress on the staff involved.
If there was negligence, then that’s a different matter, but it seems here they were doing their best to keep the OP’s DF safe. And he could still have refused.

If he’s been put on the acute ward he’s been assessed as needing to be there and kept in and will be being monitored 24/7 so he’s not being ignored as you keep
statingI bet you aren’t even in the hospital with him are you? You’re sat on your arse at home!!

Time waster

she has now said she thinks the paramedics didn’t know what AF is - omg - I fell on the floor - what a complete idiot

What really angers me is that it was well known by somebody that there would be no doctors available to check patients results anytime during the night.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. There are doctors in ED (A&E) 24/7 including overnight - both ED doctors and doctors from other specialties that come to see patients that have been referred to them.

What is actually happening is that the doctors that are on overnight may come on to lots of patients waiting to be seen (with more attending or being referred durting the night), and knowing that seriously abnormal blood results will be telephoned through, or that the nurses will flag up if the observations are bad, have to prioritise where they spend their time, and have chosen to see the patients that have not yet been seen by an ED dr or the specialty that they have been referred to, rather than looking at bloods from patients that are already seen. Yes in an ideal world, they would do both, but it's not always easy to do so.

I hope the result is they mark dads records with - strange relatives - beware

what will OPs complaint headline be - “school
teaching my child to read” - when I’ve said it’s not needed

They protected themselves and your father in case things were going to get worse. Although it's annoying they acted in his best interest.

The only unfair here is the threat that he'd go last in the queue if he then called them again, I don't think it's true, they have a duty to rescue to avoid legal actions.

If he wanted to refuse it would have been entirely his responsibility and I find fair that they need you to put this in writing.

Sorry he had to wait but we all have to be patient as the NHS is looking after so many of us.

If he knows his own body then why bother seeing a cardiologist to have a plan made and why bother calling an ambulance? I'm fact why do any of us ever need medical professionals if we all know our own body best 🤣

"And he was right"

This time maybe... Thank goodness!

What a revolting thread.
Let's bash the NHS for doing their job.
Throw in as many complaints as you like, OP. Do your worst.

Your father has agency, presumably, and was able, at any point, to refuse treatment, to refuse transportation to hospital, to refuse to stay for monitoring.

This whole thread is appalling.

It's a Saturday, the busiest day of the week for ambulances. There might not be one available if it had happened again the same day.

Private care - would still send him to nhs - it isn’t all it’s cracked up to be

selfish selfish time wasters

Just so you know OP, every student paramedic has to pass an ECG assessment, so I’m pretty sure they’ve heard of AF. Heart rhythms are bread and butter for paramedics.

I've discharged myself from ADAU before I'd seen a doctor. I had to sign the forms but it didn't impact my care in any way going forward.

The paramedics were correctly doing their job. They only carry so much equipment whereas the hospital would be able to carry out many more tests, scans and blood tests.
I am so angry you are reporting some poor sod for doing their job.

10 hours previously

Just curious. how much did his treatment cost you today?

was it …. Nothing?

Why are you surprised it was terrible?

you aren’t the customer and neither is he, that is why you / your father are treated as person of no consequence

Good news OP. You do not have to put up with this.

there is an alternative.

roll up your sleeves and type “private A & E U.K. cardiac”

next time you need medical attention for your father, go to a private provider

you won’t experience any of the issues you’ve described

he will be treated quickly and with care and respect

pay up and enjoy a totally different experience

stop expecting the nhs to be anything other than shit - well now, you are starting to learn that you get what you pay for

I speak as a person who went without holidays for three years to save up £10k for vital cancer preventing surgery with a private surgeon after waiting two years for surgery with the nhs - who treated me like dirt, so I truly followed my own advice and paid, it was worth every single penny

Complaining about them is so wrong, you should be ashamed @wecangoupupup

It begs believe that she thinks they won’t know what AF is

so she is stating from a place of thinking her dad has some special condition that needs specialist care 😂😂😂😂

@ExtraOnionsmy thoughts exactly.

The reality of the NHS at present is that they are very very stretched and with an aging and growing population you can see why. We need to move to another model of healthcare where we pay for it cos what we have is clearly not working!

@JulietteHasAGun , yep, I was reeling from that too!

Nonsense

We were in A and E recently, dh wasn't triaged for nearly 6 hours, it was shocking.

You sound like you've had a very stressful experience.

However, the A&E waiting time/ understaffing isn't the fault of the paramedics though.

And please, don't say 'bullying' even you don't mean it. Not every time someone says something that someone else disagrees with, is it 'bullying'. You asked them for their professional opinion and they disagreed with you. That's not bullying.

The ambulance staff aren't doctors, they're front line emergency workers. Most ambulance staff aren't even trained to paramedic level, they are emergency medical technicians. They can only do so much. Ignoring potential heart problems is above their pay grade.

Its a bit like how if you call 111 for anything to do with kids, you'll pretty much always be told to go to A&E. They, like ambulance crew, have procedures to follow and if you tick a certain box the advice will be 'hospital'.

You have 2 choices - go along with it, or choose not to and take responsibility for your choice. You seem to be going with a 3rd option, 'go, but complain about it' which isn't reasonable.

This kind of complaint likely won't reach the ambulance crew it'll just be binned off. We get so many crazy complaints it's absolutely not fare to put them to crews unless there's something actionable.

With this it'll either just evidence that the Ambulance crew did exactly what the service wants them to do - make sure someone with chest pain like event went to A&E, or it'll be embellished in such a way as to make it clearly made up nonsense i.e the ambulance crew didn't know what AF was (everyone knows it's really quite common/not at all 'specialist' knowledge), or that they told him he wouldn't be allowed another ambulance - it just sounds too stupid/clearly made up.

You're just going to get the standard response it's regrettable you weren't satisfied and the incident will be reviewed.

I've got AF, onset with sepsis, currently very badly controlled despite thinners and a very big dose of Bisoprolol, awaiting cardio appointment. I don't understand why if his ablation has failed he isn't back on the beta blockers as a matter of course and he has to go to hospital for them. Do you mean Amiodarone? (different story)

ETA paramedics know full well what AF is and are very, very good at ECGS