To be really struggling with untidy ds

[untidymess26]

My five and a half year old ds is a whirlwind, always has been. I’ve always struggled with the mess he makes to be honest. Things will be strewn throughout the house and garden and it leaves this general sense of chaos everywhere.

I have tried various strategies to manage it. I’ve tried rotating toys but I forget where I’ve put them and anyway it isn’t really toys - he does strew them around but it’s fairly easy to collect them and put them in a box. But it’s as if whatever he does has to be maximum mess. He pulls his duvet off the bed, books are everywhere, phonics cards (he is in reception) and pillows. He will take his pyjama bottoms off in the morning if he goes to the toilet and leave them somewhere random. Even after school sometimes he’ll decide he needs something from his book bag and empty the contents. He’ll want to do drawing and leave paper, colours everywhere. I’m exhausted dealing with it to be honest.

He plays outside a lot which is good but can’t seem to stop making a mess there and I am not precious about the garden but piling dirt up inside the house (ffs) and turning the outdoor tap on so it’s sludge outside.

I try to get him to tidy up but the whole process takes so long and is so widespread that it’s counterintuitive; it creates more work for me rather than less. And I do tell him not to eg turn the tap on and you’ll have to come inside if you can’t but then he just makes a mess indoors.

Does anyone else have a child like this? He was once away for the weekend with DH and I was home with his toddler sister and the house looked much the same throughout the weekend. Ds comes home and it’s trashed. It is starting to get me down to be honest.

Sounds like he needs more supervision and redirection.

He’s old enough to understand I’d stream line everything clothes and toys

Not totally sure what you mean by streamline, @rwalker , sorry.

Get rid of most of them minimal clutter if he can’t put them away can’t have them

not my proudest moment but I’ve threatened to bin stuff it they didn’t tidy up and I did
granted they were a bit older felt guilty but it worked

It sounds like he needs supervision and more input in how to clean up. He's still a very young child who needs support in learning these skills. You will also need to teach your daughter as she gets older.

OK, so break this down. Young children are messy and unlikely to spontaneously decide to tidy up after themselves.

Mess in the house. If it's his room he tidies it up before he goes onto the next thing. Yes, it will be quicker for you to do it, but you are then teaching him that if he makes a mess a woman will clean it up.

if you don't want him piling up dirt and turning on the tap in the garden then make those things out of bounds.

Institute a "tidy up" time before bed. He tidies up; you supervise. If it takes ages, you start earlier the next day (and tell him that's why you are doing so).

Repeat repeat repeat. He will get it.

At this age it really is about you proactively going behind him and tidying up. That’s part of the job unfortunately - yes to encouraging him and turning it into a game an reinforcing habits etc etc but ultimately it’s down to you to pick up a lot of this stuff

Twist the tap so tightly that he can’t turn it on.

He's five - you need to teach him how to tidy up, which often means going around behind him and reminding him and showing him constantly.

The process of getting him to tidy up may well feel like it's counterintuitive and takes too much effort but it is necessary. The more effort you put in now, the lease chance of you ending up with a messy teen who thinks mum will just do it because it is easier for her/she is better at it.
Like any other skill, it takes time to master.

He's only five - at this age you have to actively support.

Let's put these away before getting the next game out.
I'm putting on the tidying song, let's get everything straightened out.
Have you made your bed yet? Pop upstairs and do that before breakfast.

About the tap - he needs a water table, not to play with the tap itself.

I try to get him to tidy up but the whole process takes so long and is so widespread that it’s counterintuitive; it creates more work for me rather than less.

Unfortunately you need to persevere. He doesn't know how to tidy up because you don't proactively make him. He's a child, it'll never be right but the more he does it the better it will get.

He pulls his duvet off the bed... so he stays there until he's picked it back up. Books allover the floor, the picks them up and stacks them before the next activity. Everytime you see him try to move on to something new... you announce its time to tidy up first. Or at periodic times throughout the day "let's tidy up before we have lunch"... "we are going outside to play so let's tidy up".

You also need to do this with the toddler so that he sees its a group effort.

Do you reinforce good behaviour with stickers or anything, lots of praise etc? My youngest used to leave his shoes in the middle of the floor, now he doesn't do that and knows to hang his coat up etc. Positive reinforcement worked then it just become habit.
Also a game where you count the toys as you put them away together, and whoever tidies the most wins (let him win). Eventually it becomes the norm.

I see - sorry. I have actually got rid of a lot of stuff in absolute desperation but some of it isn’t even ‘his’ it’s ours. Yesterday he was obsessed with making a fan and took a load of paper from the printer and sellotape, my highlighters. So after I’d been bathing and reading to dd I come downstairs and paper is everywhere, highlighters everywhere, sellotape all over the place … It’s that sort of stuff I really struggle with because even if I got rid of all his toys and books (I’m not suggesting for a moment I would do this of course just to be illustrative) he’d still make a mess.

Generally with tidying up he refuses but sometimes will. The problem is the process takes so long and is so badly done that it’s just largely pointless, and adding to my work rather than taking it away!

So he will eg tidy up (with a lot of prompts) some blocks by putting them back in the tub but he won’t walk around the house and pick up the tornado he’s left in his wake, and it is that which takes a lot of time. It’s true he needs supervision but also he can trash a room in seconds. So I’m not totally sure that is the answer.

I think a joint effort like tidying up the block you hold the box and he picks them up
to me this is a hill to die on
make it easy is it to tidy large storage box
friend daughter does tidy up rumba she has a tune on her phone and they dance while they tidy

Generally with tidying up he refuses but sometimes will. The problem is the process takes so long and is so badly done that it’s just largely pointless, and adding to my work rather than taking it away!

If he refuses then you need to implement a consequence for that.

It will take ages (because he's five) but if you don't put the work in now, you'll be back here in 10 years complaining that your 15 year old doesn't know how to tidy up after himself.

My DD is still a bit like this age 10! She can't look through a drawer for something, she prefers to tip the drawer out so she can see it all... Same with box of dressing up clothes, or with stickers etc. it all comes out. I have to help her a lot, she has ADHD which seems to make it hard for her to break down a task and get started so I have to say 'start by picking up all the pens and give them to me', followed by 'get the dustpan and brush and sweep up the mess' etc so give her instructions for each step (not at all saying your child has ADHD just explaining how I help her to break down the task of 'tidy up your things' !). It's not efficient, it doesn't save me time to have her tidy, but I have to persevere to get her to learn these skills.
I can see how at 5 tidying up feels pointless and boring so if there is anything you can do to make it more interesting (timer - how fast can you pick up all the Lego; let's collect all the red cars first etc) might help.
Good luck, it can be relentless and thankless!

Thank you. Yes, we do this but I suppose the blocks aren’t a problem really. Things like that are straightforward as he gets them out, fine, puts them back, also fine (OK it takes some ‘reminders’ but he’s five so …)

But what I’m struggling with isn’t him getting toys out and playing with them. It’s this sort of behaviour.

DS wakes up and throws the duvet off his bed. (It’s a high sleeper so he can’t put it back himself.) He goes for a wee and takes his pyjama bottoms off and leaves them in the bathroom. He goes to his room in search of something and rummages through his wardrobe hunting it down; clothes end up on the floor and he knocks some books off the shelf. No idea if he’s found what he’s looking for or not. He now goes downstairs and has breakfast, while I’m showering he gets numerous pieces of paper out and leaves them in the hall, the lounge, the dining room, the kitchen. Felt tip pens are everywhere too. The cushions from the sofa are inexplicably on the floor too.

DS then gets dressed, brushes teeth, reads to me and then we go downstairs. I’m filling a water bottle; I discover ds in the cupboard under the stairs digging around for something and the hall is filled with coats and shoes and scarves and hats and the like.

On the way to school he starts rummaging through his book bag and his reading journal and other books end up all over the car.

The above happen in 2/3 minutes. It’s exhausting and making me so bad tempered. I wish it was only blocks!

Oh, 100%. I’m not even exactly complaining about it really … I am I suppose but I’m more talking about the effect it has on me. (He doesn’t care about consequences.)

@seriouslynonames that does sound very similar.

So you need to either follow him around and supervise so he can't do those things, or leave them out for him to tidy up himself. He's not too young to understand direct consequences.

I understand but you must also see I can’t literally follow him around every single second. I have to do things myself and I do have another child as well. I need to be able to make breakfast, make dinner, see to myself (shower and dress) fill up a water bottle, help child2 on the potty, etc.

Then you send him back to tidy his mess. Every time.

And he doesn’t. I genuinely think he can’t because the mess he makes is so far and wide and so all over the place even I struggle when I see it with ‘where the fuck do I even start.’

I clean and tidy several times a week but within minutes it can look like it hasn’t been touched for months. It’s difficult not to feel low with it I suppose and it’s those feelings I am posting about really.

Generally with tidying up he refuses but sometimes will. The problem is the process takes so long and is so badly done that it’s just largely pointless, and adding to my work rather than taking it away!

He's a child. He doesn't get to refuse. Walk round the house with him and point out all the things he needs to pick up/put away. (If he's had a decent go, you might want to quietly do it to a better standard when he's not looking). Yes, it will take longer in the short term. Yes it will give you an extra job. But it will not be any easier to get an older child to tidy if they are used to not doing it. Have a peek over on the Teenagers forum and see how many teens will do nothing for themselves because they've never had to.

Think of this not as tidying the house but as teaching your child a new skill. Do you get him to read to you? Or do you think it's not worthwhile because he can only read really simple books and it takes him ages to sound out words, so you might as well not bother?

And it's okay to feel low. Being a parent is bloody relentless and exhausting.

he doesn’t get to refuse well, he does I’m afraid, unless I physically force him and I’m not even sure how that would look with something like tidying up - I could drag him to where the mess is but then if he won’t pick it up 🤷‍♀️ (I know you weren’t suggesting that I actually do this but the point is that yes you can do things to persuade, threaten, cajole or whatever but they can refuse.) DS generally just stands around whining and the more you try to make him do it the more he whines. I have recently been able to get him to do something specific eg put the blocks on there, put the pens back, but only if they are in a particular place and they generally aren’t, like I say, it’s generally all over the house.