Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

New renter rights act is a bloody good thing!

459 replies

Pineapplewhip · Yesterday 06:24

Naturally landlords have some justifiable concerns/questions but those that are up in arms about the whole thing are completely bloody immoral. The slum landlords have spoilt it for the good ones and the decent landlords should blame them and not the government for protecting people.

If you arent aware of the actual points of the bill - I've listed them below. I cant see how any reasonable person can disagree that it's just enforcing the most basic human decency and regulation.

  • End to no fault evictions: landlords can only evict renters if they want to sell, move in themselves, move their family into the property or there are serious rent arrears. They have to prove they are selling too - they cant just say they are!
  • Rent can only rise once a year, any rise above market rate can be disputed fairly and 2 months notice is given.
  • Landlords can't refuse you for having children or being on benefits (if you prove that benefits/finances make the property affordable). This isnt about being on full benefits either. Many single parents need benefits to top up income.
  • Landlord ombudsman - tennants can raise fair disputes and repair issues for free online and landlords cannot just ignore it/grey rock. Repeat offenders will be visable in the database. Landlords legally must act on the complaints.
  • Faster action must be taken on damp and mould. Basic human rights! No more shitty emails from a middle man letting agent just blaming the tennant for not opening a window - when actually (for example) a house needs its brickwork repointing.

The only legitimate thing I have empathy for is the concern that it will be more of a process to evict non paying tennants as it will need to go through a court. However - this is why landlord insurance exists!!

Please ask yourself - if your child was renting - wouldn't you want them protected like this?

OP posts:
snowmichael · Yesterday 11:31

No good landlord worries about any of those except

  • there are serious rent arrears
Who defines 'serious'? One month is serious for me, I can't pay the mortgage on that house if they don't pay their rent
  • Landlords can't refuse you for having children or being on benefits
Most landlords with buy-to-let mortgage has no choice but to refuse, as it's a condition of the mortgage that tenants cannot be on means tested benefits - and yes, that includes state pension

Making it harder to be a private landlord results in private landlords selling up to either families (house removed from the rental sector) or to corporates who charge a minimum of 50% more and have much stricter income and credit requirements

How does that help people needing to rent?

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:33

Lugol · Yesterday 07:11

Or just keep their properties empty. 🤷🏻‍♀️

If you have a mortgage, your can't afford to leave it empty
And most insurance is invalid if a property is uninhabited for more than 30 days

nearlylovemyusername · Yesterday 11:33

Upstartled · Yesterday 07:57

We'll just sell up when our current tenant moves out. They've been there 10 years so hopefully they'll be happy there for more years to come and then we'll call it a day.

The unintended consequences of this legislation will land on those who are most risky to let a home to - particularly the young who have already been locked out of jobs to 'progressive' employment rights.

There are going to be a whole lot of jobless young adults stuck living at home thanks to all these shiny new Labour policies.

100% this. But youngster are given voting rights now.

Why people never learn? the consequences of "no tax rises on working people", only employers, NMW increases for young in particular, all great things, right? well, only if you are able to find a job then. The same for this bill - all great, just no properties to rent left.

greenappletasty · Yesterday 11:35

Poppingby · Yesterday 08:02

Sorry landlords, but you don't get damp problems that cause you thousands of pounds to fix because your tenants don't open the windows. The fact anyone claims this makes them look like one of the terrible landlords this act is about. I own a Victorian house.

The best landlord I ever had was a faceless corporation type landlord who had staff and procedures for repairs, carried them out quickly, put systems in like permanent air vents and integral hair catchers and didn't try to guilt you into doing anything because it was a business transaction not a personal one. Of course they did not take any shit and did 6 monthly inspections and liked a solicitors letter, but it was much fairer than any other type of landlord I had in my many years of renting. Hopefully these types of company will buy up all the cheap properties that come in the market from "accidental" landlords who actually can't invest in the process of renting out homes to people.

Oh dear. My point proven. No matter what you tell people they don’t understand science.

The house was fitted with air vents on every chimney breast. Repairs were always fixed same day or next day because I paid an agency to respond immediately to all issues. Which they did. Every time. The roof was fitted with air vents. The windows were fitted with trickle vents. The hair blocker was perfectly fit for purpose. They removed it with a screwdriver. They also disconnected the mains wired smoke alarms.

And if you think you know more about Victorian properties than a specialist, heritage house damp surveyor then I can’t help you.

Araminta1003 · Yesterday 11:35

Just to clarify, by “difficult” tenants in the context of social housing, I mean difficult from a financing/bank point of view, given earnings multiples. Imposing the financial risk of certain tenants on private housing landlords without governmental guarantee is inappropriate. I do not think landlord insurance will make up for this and if it will, it will just rise substantially and be passed on to all tenants?

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · Yesterday 11:36

ByQuaintAzureWasp · Yesterday 11:08

It has led to.lots of properties coming off the rental market so it's not a good thing, we need more not less. I have been a landlord was a very good one with a few long term tenants ... the last one being a nightmare.

We have always been lucky too, with our sole rental, but we have been choosy about tenants, have always attended promptly to any maintenance issues, and (especially lately) have kept the rent relatively low for the type/area - recent local rent prices seen online have shocked us!

I have also allowed 2 cats. Tenants are bound to realise that they wouldn’t find anything nearly as nice in the same area, for anything like the same money.

But TBH I’m still thinking of selling once the current tenants leave (I would never evict them) since dh and I are both getting on a bit and I really don’t want the hassle of any more major maintenance issues, like a fairly recent serious leak in the bathroom. Instinct now is to sell while it’s still looking very nice - it was originally renovated from a filthy hovel you’d hardly leave a dog in overnight.

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:37

MikeRafone · Yesterday 07:19

How would you take 6 months rent up front?

?

Tenant offers, you accept, add a codicil to the Shorthold Tenancy Agreement

My tenants have always paid two months rent as deposit, and two months rolling in advance

When they give their two months notice to move out, they don't pay rent on the last two months, makes it easier for them to get together a deposit/rent for the new place

GoldebWeasel · Yesterday 11:37

I became an accidental landlord, tenants have been good so far and I didn’t sell earlier despite barely breaking even because they’d been there so long, rent below market value. It was purely about having good tenants and covering the cost for me.I do worry a lot about the new legislation and just the rhetoric against landlords in general, I intend to sell at my next mortgage break late next year, even if it’s at a loss.

VeterinaryCareAssistant · Yesterday 11:37

WhyamIinahandcartandwherearewegoing · Yesterday 07:11

What will happen is so obvious and this government are refusing to see it, in preference for what they think is a short term headline win.

it used to be (years ago) that rent was paid direct to LLs if receipients were in receipt of housing benefit- then it was deemed unfair and paid direct
ro recipients who in turn pay their LL - a crazy system which has resulted in months of non payment to LLs who struggle to deal with non payers.

The housing element of UC or old housing benefit can still be paid directly to landlords.

greenappletasty · Yesterday 11:38

DreamyScroller · Yesterday 11:06

That sounds absolutely awful. I am a renter and can't imagine the gall it would take to behave this way in someone else's property. But didn't you vet the people renting? Did you meet them, get references, etc? Obviously that is not foolproof and you can never really tell how people will be.

They all passed credit checks, and all previous landlords will give references to relieve themselves of their own hell. The vetting system is not fit for purpose. And never will be.

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:39

WizdomE · Yesterday 07:19

I’m a long term landlord and yes there are bad landlords and bad tenants….. additionally there are ignorant tenants and ignorant landlords (those that don’t know how to manage a property) and cause damage. Whilst in principle I agree with improving tenants rights, making it easier to evict BAD tenants has not happened, the court system is in a terrible state, this is my main issue with the new law. AND these costs will be carried by the landlord and tenants. So future rent increases will include a monthly amount that covers future eviction, but that burden will be spread across all tenants.
cost breakdown pcm example
rent £1000
mortgage -£250
repairs and maintenance -£150 ( this includes ongoing costs and tenant change over)
eviction costs -£50
tax -£250 (approx)
Result is £300 profit (aka £3600 per annum on a £200,000 property value).

a landlord has to put aside money each month for repairs and maintenance and future evictions, now ed Miliband wants to pass on the cost of improving energy efficiency, this will add another monthly cost (energy efficiency improvement -£100, it’s just not a sustainable model and the risk return model is radically shifting.

I need to increase rents by 30%. I hope the tenants are getting ready for this… and it makes me very sad for them.

In summary the government wants corporation landlords, less necks to grab…. But once this happens the power balance will shift again and you know that landlord who has not increased your rent for 3+ years bye bye.

its simple more regulation = more costs = rent increase

and as a landlord I will actually become more selective on tenants, I will actually request to view the property they are currently renting to see how they treat it.

> In summary the government wants corporation landlords

It's almost as if large corporate landlords are donors to the Labour party

Oh, wait ... THEY ARE

And most are based offshore so unlike small private landlords, they pay no UK tax

VeterinaryCareAssistant · Yesterday 11:39

ThisOldThang · Yesterday 07:14

Unless it's a council house, in which case the rent is paid directly to councils. The politicians knew exactly what problems this would cause with unpaid rent to private landlords, but did it out of spite.

That is nonsense. Rent can be paid directly to councils or private landlords or it can be paid directly to the tenants of either.

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:40

MikeRafone · Yesterday 07:21

That means:
A landlord who needs to sell (maybe for retirement, inheritance tax, or their own family circumstances) or move a relative in could be stuck for a very long time.

they’d serve a section 8 if they want to sell or move family in

And if the tenant refuse to move out?
An eviction via the court takes a MINIMUM of three months, usually six months to a year

LightDrizzle · Yesterday 11:43

DreamyScroller · Yesterday 11:06

That sounds absolutely awful. I am a renter and can't imagine the gall it would take to behave this way in someone else's property. But didn't you vet the people renting? Did you meet them, get references, etc? Obviously that is not foolproof and you can never really tell how people will be.

I think the “accidental” or one property landlords are far more likely to pass over the management of their property rental to an estate or rental agent, often the same one they’ve used to buy their own house. They are naive as the level of care some of these companies put in to due diligence. Some people employed in this sector are very good at nodding earnestly and promising the earth when talking to a prospective landlord just as they may be when talking to the tenant, but all they are bothered about is getting landlords on board and tenants in the property as there is usually a commission element to their pay. So a minority won’t give a shit and do the bare minimum whereas the non-professional landlord thinks they will bring the expertise of a professional and also expertise born of experience that they, as a teacher or local government data analyst lack.

Non-professional landlords are often naive themselves. If your family and friends are nice people and haven’t been a landlord, you wouldn’t guess that a small but not insignificant minority of tenants regard the clauses on their rental contract as a tickbox exercise and will let children/ puppies/ themselves wreck a property or that they will stop paying rent and refuse to move out doing more damage until the glacial process finally ends in their lawful eviction. Quite a lot of people lie; some of them will be landlords and some will be tenants, if you are honest yourself (I’m not talking about white lies) then you tend to take things at face value. A professional landlord will leave as little as they can to chance and do their due diligence and permitted checks before a tenant signs and remain vigilant after.

The first time non-professional landlord is happy that Drizzle & Sons found a nice family so quickly that were happy with the no pets restriction they had stipulated and that they will be looking after the property and doing the checks. After all they know what to look out for.

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:44

disappearingme · Yesterday 07:39

Genuine question but as pretty much every house up for rent has multiple people applying for it, how would anyone ever be able to prove that the landlord chose to rent it to the person with a full time job and not the person on benefits? Surely when people go to viewings they will talk about what they do for work. I don't think the bill is going to stop that from happening. I'm a tenant who gets UC though very lucky to have come into some inheritance so I can buy a house. I don't think the bill is as strong as people think.

Most private landlords use an agency to find tenants and part of their fee pays for credit checks, which include whether or not the tenant is working, what their income is, whether or not they are on any means tested benefits etc.

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:46

Twinandatwoyearold · Yesterday 07:46

There Is a shortage of property. Landlords can’t take money in advance. If 4 people want the property you offer cash in advance - some dodgy landlords will take it as they can avoid paying tax.

A family could have cash (or access to cash either via family or crime) yet would not pass a letting agent’s employment and income and credit checks.

Many people have cash and a default or ccj or are an ex bankrupt.

The government want corporate landlords and as a previous poster said that means tenant can say goodbye to landlords who keep the rent at the same level for a few years.

To a corporate landlord you are tenant number 791 who needs a rent review every May. The AI system will check multiple databases to provide evidence of market rent. A local landlord will have no idea what tenants down the street are paying (unless s/he owns another house on the street or sees a house on rightmove- the agent will likely use rightmove plus for comparables ). A corporate owning 20 houses in a 0.25 mile radius will have much more data to access. And a bank account that can buy in data from surveyors etc to prove a higher rent is justified. The rent will be in line with market rents and reviewed without fail.

> Landlords can’t take money in advance.

You know nothing about the law

Landlords cannot ask for extra money in advance any more
Tenants can still offer it

Landlions · Yesterday 11:47

Surely there's a balance between providing a decent home that meets health regs and giving tenants too much power over someone else's property.

Astrabees · Yesterday 11:48

DS2 and his fiancée are now buying a 2 bed flat in South London. It is going to be substantially cheaper than renting. They rented a nice flat but after a year the landlord wanted an extra £400 pcm and they had to move. They moved to another nice rental but again each year there brings a rent increase that takes up any pay rises they get and leaves them worse off. This is no way to live long term.
I get a bit cross when landlords say if they all sell up there will be no rentals available. The rentals would sell for lower prices if the market was flooded which would mean more young people could afford to buy or they would be bought by larger scale landlords and back on the market quickly.

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:49

randomchap · Yesterday 08:00

You can still evict someone for antisocial behaviour or damaging the property.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guide-to-the-renters-rights-act/guide-to-the-renters-rights-act

Where a tenant is at fault, landlords can give notice using the relevant grounds at any point in the tenancy. This includes where a tenant commits antisocial behaviour, is damaging the property, or falls into significant arrears.

And when the trashing tenant refuses to move out?
To get an eviction notice served takes a minimum of three months - sometimes as long as a year
To get it processed by bailiffs takes a minimum of two months on top

AprilMizzel · Yesterday 11:49

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:39

> In summary the government wants corporation landlords

It's almost as if large corporate landlords are donors to the Labour party

Oh, wait ... THEY ARE

And most are based offshore so unlike small private landlords, they pay no UK tax

I didn't know that but have read they want corporation landlords.

Though PP point about renting to councils may also apply.

We spent ten years renting and saving house deposit - can't see this making it easier for next generation to do the same.

I have read that projection suggest there will be around 1% decrease in house prices due to deaths increases due to aging population - more coming on market and lower demand as fewer workers - if you've got coporate landlords buying them all up that likely not to happen either.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out - whether it settles as landlords remainging just get on in new system - though my DC are coming up to age they'd be moving round country for careers and looking to rent so may well be a very bad thing for them and us.

Araminta1003 · Yesterday 11:49

If tenants default on rent and a landlord hands keys back to the buy to let banks, can they evict the tenants and exercise their power of sale any faster than the landlord?

randomchap · Yesterday 11:50

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:49

And when the trashing tenant refuses to move out?
To get an eviction notice served takes a minimum of three months - sometimes as long as a year
To get it processed by bailiffs takes a minimum of two months on top

Same as it was before the RRA

Aluna · Yesterday 11:51

AprilMizzel · Yesterday 11:49

I didn't know that but have read they want corporation landlords.

Though PP point about renting to councils may also apply.

We spent ten years renting and saving house deposit - can't see this making it easier for next generation to do the same.

I have read that projection suggest there will be around 1% decrease in house prices due to deaths increases due to aging population - more coming on market and lower demand as fewer workers - if you've got coporate landlords buying them all up that likely not to happen either.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out - whether it settles as landlords remainging just get on in new system - though my DC are coming up to age they'd be moving round country for careers and looking to rent so may well be a very bad thing for them and us.

Corporate landlords is exactly where this is going.

They will be infinitely harder to deal with.

HelenaWaiting · Yesterday 11:52

TeenagersAngst · Yesterday 06:31

There was already plenty of regulation of the PRS that is woefully enforced meaning good landlords who comply have a harder time and bad landlords carry on regardless.

Bad landlords will carry on regardless of the RRA as well.

If the government really wanted to help tenants, they would leave the private sector alone and focus on building social housing. The private sector would then operate on its own merits and either fail or succeed.

The worst of all worlds is the system we have - an over-regulated private sector.

Edited

This. The rotten housing market forcing rents ever higher is a direct result of Thatcher's destruction of social housing. Everything else that is wrong with this country can also be laid at her door.

snowmichael · Yesterday 11:53

puddingwisdom · Yesterday 08:07

Sorry landlords, but you don't get damp problems that cause you thousands of pounds to fix because your tenants don't open the windows. The fact anyone claims this makes them look like one of the terrible landlords this act is about. I own a Victorian house.

I am not a landlord any more but this simply isnt true. If you constantly hang washing up to dry in unventilated rooms you will get mould forming due to the high humidity conditions. It doesnt mean the house has a structural damp issue.

The only condensation mould problem I have ever had with tenants in 20 years of renting was rice steamers in a bedroom (this was in a four bed 1970s detached house with a huge kitchen)

After strong words, and the threat of eviction, they agreed to only use the steamer in the kitchen

They left a few months later for unrelated reasons, and the cost of treating the mould was deducted from their deposit

Swipe left for the next trending thread