To think MPs shouldn’t be drinking while at work?

[greywildoceans]

There’s a big debate going on after new Green MP Hannah Smith has come out and said that you can smell the alcohol on MPs after lunchtime.

https://x.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/2048323140804100487?s=46

Of course all the usual lot are coming out saying it’s a British tradition to drink at work and she’s being “anti British”. I’ve worked in the public sector and the private sector and I have never encountered anyone who thought it was appropriate to drink while working. I’m confident that if anyone did, they’d be fired.

AIBU to say MPs should be banned from drinking while working?

Who says it’s not appropriate? I get you don’t think it is, and there are some who agree with you. There are also those who disagree with you and don’t see it as an issue in this context.

I have done a quick search @Everanewbie and it would appear that here is in fact some evidence that drinking in parliament is problematic.
Apparently 1 in 5 complaints to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme involved alcohol and they state that alcohol continues to play a significant role in bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct in Parliament.

Maybe 25 years ago 😂

See my latest post.
If alcohol is causing a continued issue with bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct in the workplace then it's inappropriate.

Probably pretty shocking to start a new job, thinking you can make an impact on people's lives, and find actually all the old boys are steaming.

The Welsh Parliament does not serve alcohol before 6pm, that I do know.

This is just a campaign to remove alcohol from Westminster.

I wonder what would be next ? No alcohol in supermarkets ?

Thankfully, it will never happen. The idea someone cannot have a glass of wine before they leave for their constituency on a Friday lunchtime is too much.

They don’t want to legalise heroin, they want to decriminalise it which is entirely different. It means users (who are sick addicts) won’t be sent to prison for their addiction which makes sense.

I worked at Greggs when I was studying for my bachelors and the manager there was always drunk. She just reeked of wine constantly, would slur her words. I felt sorry for her, I found the job depressing as fuck and I only had to work PT while studying but she’d been there years. I think MP’s generally have a nicer life than her so no excuse for drinking on the job.

Drunk and having a drink are not the same thing.

I hope she realises that should the Green Party ever gain plenty of votes she and her boss will be dumped like hot potatoes.

No amount of seeking to ingratiate yourself will change that.

I think you'll find that female MPs make up quite a proportion of customers patronising commons establishments. I think the old boys club thing is designed to target a feminist ear and get them clapping like seals at the thought of sticking one to the patriarchy when all you'll be doing is treating men and women alike like children, infantilising them and removing their ability to manage their own lives.

I am criticising your argument in calling you puritanical, and and instinct to ban enjoyable practices do hint at trauma. Some of the most enthusiastic members of the temperance movement have experienced alcoholism in the family, and have a personal stake in their cause. But what they struggle to comprehend is that for every one who struggles with detrimental affects, there are hundreds that enjoy it without problems. Not to deny their lived experience, but it shouldn't dictate what the majority get to do.

And finally, I've been holding off on this, MPs aren't really employed as such are they? They are elected representatives. Aides etc. are employed by them, not the commons. I am sure the building itself has its own staff, but it is not like an office, with set hours of business etc.

I do wonder if she was playing to the religious element of her party that continues to masquerade as environmentally concerned.

I am criticising your argument in calling you puritanical, and and instinct to ban enjoyable practices do hint at trauma.

No you're clutching at straws because for some reason you seem to struggle with people having a different opinion to you.
I don't want to ban alcohol. I enjoy drinking alcohol.
I just don't think it's appropriate in the workplace. That's just my opinion which will have zero impact on anything or anyone.

Then deal with the individuals concerned.

I don't have difficulty with differing opinions, but I do have difficulty with people who's first instinct is to suck all the joy out of life by banning things.

We're a society that is effectively based on laws, rules and cultural norms that says do what you want, until it starts affecting others. That is how I want it to stay.

This report would suggest it's not just about individuals but that it's an organisational culture issue. A culture where alcohol plays a significant part in bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct.

If I received a report like that about my organisation or department I'd have a responsibility to at least look at why alcohol was playing such an significant role in this type of behaviour. Not defend the right to drink at all costs or call people puritanical for discussing it.

We're a society that is effectively based on laws, rules and cultural norms that says do what you want, until it starts affecting others. That is how I want it to stay.

You don't think a culture where alcohol continues to play a significant part in the bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct towards staff falls into the category of affecting others?

They taped off children's clothing aisles during COVID, I don't think Westminster should look to the Welsh assembly in any shape or form.

Oh and I haven't said ban it. I've just said I don't think it's appropriate.
It's not like I'm actively campaigning to have it banned. I'm just joining in a discussion

No. I think individuals are responsible for their own behaviour and if they fall short, appropriate action should be taken.

Maybe just no drinking on the tills?

When I started my first role in a public sector organisation out of uni one of my older colleagues told me that they had an unwritten rule not to ask the senior manager any important questions after lunchtime as chances are he’d be half cut. This was around 15 years ago and the public sector organisation was the NHS. It’s absolutely disgusting behaviour and always makes me laugh when there is the usual guff about the current generation of workers not being as productive or willing to put in as many hours as previous generations.

In a more recent role my then team leader would spout on about how everyone of my generation “just” did their 9 to 5 and nobody stayed to put in extra time for the organisation and how it was so different to when she started her career and how she was always the last one out the door. She didn’t like it when I pointed out that might have had something to do with the fact she went for at least a ten-minute fag break every hour and regularly wandered the building chit chatting while most of us logged on, worked solidly and left on time.

These business practices need to die a death.

That's not how you change organisational culture.

I don't think that is the culture that needs changing. And even if accept your premise, sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. Look at the COVID restrictions. Burning down the house because there is a wasp in the bathroom is not a sane reaction to any problem.

If there are multiple complaints related to bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct and an independent report states that alcohol plays a significant role in this behaviour do you not think that it is at least worth a review? The report said that every complaint that involved alcohol was upheld.
That suggests there is an issue that needs addressing. That doesn't automatically mean banning it completely before you accuse me of being either an alcoholic or a puritan (not sure how I can be both though tbh!)

You asked for evidence about the negative impact of drinking in parliament - is bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct not serious enough for you?

How many of those complaints are upheld?
How many relate to MPs (as opposed to the several thousand members of staff)?
How many cases were upheld and involve MPs drinking to excess during their core working day, as as opposed to having wine or a beer with dinner after they have finished or whilst they are waiting for the last division bell?

You realise that MPs are not sitting in the evening puzzling over which way to vote - they are shepherded through along party lines. Many will be there just to have their dinner and chat with colleagues whilst working away from home, as will some of the regular staff.

You are also merging two issues.

Should the tax payer run building operate food and drink outlets for staff, who for security reasons cannot just “nip in and out to Pret” or the local Italian in the evening. Yes I think they should - the main users are the general staff who often work late for the members and the house.

Should MPs and HoC staff be barred from alcohol in a way that most professionals are not.

Would you ban teachers from having a glass of wine or beer with dinner before going on to do a few hours marking and prep?