to think “food noise” is becoming one of those phrases people hide behind rather than actually dealing with their eating habits?

[foodywoody]

I keep hearing people say they have “food noise” and that’s why they’re constantly thinking about food or snacking, but isn’t that just hunger, boredom, habit, or emotional eating dressed up in a nicer label? I’m not saying it’s not real for some people, especially where there are medical issues involved, but the way it’s thrown around now makes it sound like no one has any control over it at all.

It just feels like another way to remove any personal responsibility. Not everything needs a label. Sometimes it’s just about eating properly and getting enough protein and actually addressing emotional eating.

I agree, @Hobbittyhobbs - what matters is tackling the problem, and naming/defining it is the first step to tacking any problem. Linguistic nitpicking does nothing to help people who struggle with their weight - sadly I suspect that there are people who would rather judge overweight people as moral failures than see them take steps to help themselves.

Absolutely. The people who are so insistent on denying the existence of food noise, or demanding it be framed as ‘hunger’ / ‘a simple craving’ etc. are almost always coming from an angle whereby they want to insist that everybody has equal access to thinness, and that fat people are simply less committed, disciplined or self-willed than they are. That lets them view thinness as a moral achievement, and they lose that if they accept that obesity is a medical condition and that some people are genuinely, biologically disadvantaged when it comes to effective weight management.

There’s been studies that demonstrate a differentiation between food noise and cravings. There’s also studies that allude to what a craving is and studies provide evidence to support the theory that there are differences between them. Food noise is a colloquial term but evidential in its existence, in the study I referenced earlier it was through quantification of human studies, so I don’t subscribe to the opinion that science has not proved there are two different things when discussing a craving, and “food noise”. Of studies I have read, the one that to provide most helpful information on what the experience is like, and how it’s different from cravings in its reported context are Dhurandhar et al if you’re interested. Though by all means if you’ve read something different which has based your opinion on that or you’re researching this specifically I’d be genuinely really interested to read/hear about that too, because science ❤️

Ffs. It doesn’t matter what words people use to describe their situation with food. I am rarely full. I think about food all the time. I hate it. I’m not trying to hide behind a label. I’m trying to describe the ever present thinking of food. If you don’t get this you are lucky. It’s very patronising to suggest people with obesity just need to eat less. WE KNOW!

Well said.

But there is a difference between a headache and chronic pain.

Cephalgia is pain or discomfort in the head/neck/scalp and there are different types - primary and secondary. Primary would be tension type, cluster, migraines etc. Secondary is when the pain a symptom of another pathology eg head trauma, brain tumour, meningitis, stroke.

Chronic indicates persistent, repeated, long lasting.

So if you have chronic pain in your head the issue is what is the cause.

If you go to a doctor you might be diagnosed with migraine or brain tumour or ordinary headaches - the difference will be cause + symptoms.

But “food noise” and “cravings” are not medical diagnoses. So no doctor can say you’ve got one rather than the other.

I know there are people who'd prefer to continue to see weight (and, let's be honest, were only really talking about women's weight) as a moral issue. But I'm not sure that's particularly true, or reasonable.

Some people find it harder to maintain a healthy weight. That's worth us understanding better. It isn't a personal failing.

There’s been efforts to try and describe “food noise” in obesity - ie intrusive mental chatter around food, but that’s very different from being a diagnosis or distinguishable scientifically from “cravings” which is what the poster claimed.

You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about!! Why do you even care if it doesn’t affect you? Trying to have another post of the kind they have only themselves to blame for being fat?

im size 6-8, always have been apart from after pregnancy weight. Always have the food noise and it costs me so much will power and effort not to act on it. I don’t use it as excuse, I feel bad when I overeat or eat a “bad” thing. I eat healthy and the right portions 90% of times but the food noise is always there. I exercise 5 times per week. I always think about my next meal, contemplating if I can have a snack etc. I wish it wasn’t the case, I don’t want to be hungry but this is the price I’m paying to stay this size. Food noise doesn’t affect only fat people or isn’t an excuse, it is a real thing lots of people battle with every day

I do believe though that the newer research does show that in its essence it is differential to cravings. The study I mentioned before for example. There are studies that provide evidence of what a craving is, and it’s a different entity entirely to “food noise”. Where is the evidence that disproves otherwise, I’m curious. I believe if we circle around simply what is diagnosable by science I’d think that philosophically nothing else exists 😅 I agree in a diagnostic sense that you wouldn’t simply have food noise, because it’s symptomatic of other factors, and I’ve alluded to that in previous comments to other posters.

You have said what I think but so much more eloquently than I ever could!
I really do think some slim people feel threatened by the success of former obese people losing weight eg with WLIs because they’ve lost their superior position and the moral high ground.
I know of people who can drop half a stone in a couple of weeks just by cutting out their daily glass of wine and others, like myself, who even with WLIs, lose weight very very slowly, maybe a kilo a month. There’s so much more to obesity than a lack of willpower. In my case lipoedema muddies the waters.

Without a link it’s impossible to evaluate.

But the distinction between food noise and cravings will always be a linguistic rather than a scientific one.

Maybe not scientifically investigated yet. There is a huge difference, my lovely vegan Dsis thinks about lunch while eating breakfast, she’s a size 14 but is constantly trying to out run her weight, she’s burning less calories than me but more active.
I never have food noise, I eat when I fancy something or when I’m hungry, I don’t think about it otherwise, two women born 13 months apart from the same family, Dsis eats a lot better than me and probably averages out in calories to me, but she suffers a horrendous battle daily.
One day it will be investigated by more research.

Respectfully, I would counter that it depends on what your personal interpretation of science vs linguistics are. If there’s quantifiable evidence that is derivative of theory based on reviewed hypothesis then many would argue that in its scientific sense that is evidential evidence, especially if peer reviewed, and that’s the same as all branches of health care, especially psychology but no one seems to argue the semantics of whether mental illness is evidential or linguistic. The study I referenced is interesting and has a working biological hypothesis too, with a scientific name, which incidentally is not a “craving”, which I find extremely interesting. Obviously this is a new field of research that is ever evolving, and there’s always going to be differences of opinions and perspectives, which is a good thing. But if you get chance it’s a good read, it examines the “food noise” from a multitude of angles and includes some data if you’re more inclined to favour the numbers over human experience.

Quelle surprise! Funded largely by manufacturers and/or distributors of GLP1s.

Competing interests
Emily Dhurandhar receives consulting fees as Chief Scientific Officer of Obthera. In the last thirty-six months, Dr. Allison has received personal payments or promises for same from: Novo Nordisk Foundation; Roman Health Ventures, LLC; Sand Zero Longevity Science (as stock options). Dr. Allison’s institution, Indiana University, and the Indiana University Foundation have received funds or donations to support his research or educational activities from: Eli Lilly and Company; Roman Health Ventures, LLC; WW (formerly Weight Watchers); and numerous other for-profit and non-profit organizations to support the work of the School of Public Health and the university more broadly. Lawrence J. Cheskin serves as an advisor and has equity in Aardvark Therapeutics. Kevin C. Maki has received research grant support and/or consulting fees during the prior 36 months related to body weight and appetite regulation from Cargill, Eli Lilly, General Mills, Novo Nordisk, and the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association. No other authors have disclosures related to this work.

Food noise: definition, measurement, and future research directions | Nutrition & Diabetes

why are we shocked, most studies are funded by external sources, more often than not, the drug companies. Bias is unavoidable, that’s why we have ethics committees.

I'm not shocked. Quelle surprise indicated that.

It is absolutely to be expected - but several doctors and that former commisioner of the FDA, Kessler, have mentioned that there is a difficulty in presenting any dissenting voice or words of caution around these drugs at the large conferences they attend, as almost every single speaker there has been funded by the manufacturers of the WLI.

@thehaplessgardener they should come and recruit on MN then! Lots of dissenting voices here with plenty to say about the wrongs of fatties using WLI.

Ohh sorry, the tism’ in me can be very literal. And yes, completely respect what you’ve said there with regards to the wider criticism, and yes, I completely agree longer term studies for the long term effects of the drug should be considered, but that doesn’t take away from the lived experience of those who are being used to quantify evidence of the existence of “food noise” in the studies. And even if we argued because it’s funded by the drug company then the participants could be wholly unethical and therefore representing an experience that’s different from the truth because of ‘big pharma’, it’s clear from other studies and also the thousands of boards, threads, etc etc that all comply the same lived experience with regards to food noise, so I’d lay on the side of thinking that regardless of funding, it doesn’t discount its legitimacy.

You know what folks, if you don’t think food noise is a thing, then ace - lucky you.

If you don’t think WLI are a good idea to control this or you think WLI shouldn’t be used long-term or forever then you do know your choice is not to use them don’t you? They aren’t compulsory.

But the zealous investment in this thread from people that don’t think food noise is anything more than hunger or don’t agree with WLI is astonishing.

It doesn’t affect you. Why are you so bothered what the rest of us call something we experience or why some people choose to invest in WLI?

People don't need to be directly impacted by something to be concerned about it.

Do you go on other threads about medical issues you don’t have to critique the choices other people make? As long as it involves consenting adults who are fully informed of all the risks, pros and cons and the drugs are licensed by MHRA, prescribed and dispensed from legitimate and qualified sources then it’s none of anyone’s business.

Apologies if it’s been discussed.

For those who use the term, ‘food noise’, what do you think about the concept of ‘willpower’ when it comes to food? Does it exist or is it not relevant to some groups? I promise I am not having a dig but am interested.

ETA another question. Can someone with food noise be normal/underweight by resisting the noise? Just musing.

WLI are a choice made by adults under the supervision of a prescriber. It’s a medical decision people are making. You have no need to have concern. What is your concern based on?
Like I say, if you don’t want to take them, rest assured you will never have to.
I say this from the position of someone who does not use them but I defend the right for each person who has chosen to to be allowed the dignity to make that choice without it being questioned by everyone else.

For me willpower is something really short lived such as for eg I don’t want to go to the gym but I make myself go.

With my food noise, it’s relentless until I cave in. That won’t shut it up for long because then it’s saying oooh what’s for tea, do you want to eat that last biscuit, what’s for lunch tomorrow, go on just have one.

It’s exhausting. I try all the tricks to shut it up - go for a walk, distract myself, have a drink, etc etc and it can work in the short term but I can’t tell you how draining it is. It’s a constant muttering. If I gave into it every time I’d be bed bound. As it stands, I’m just overweight but bloody miserable with it.

I know I’m not hungry because it can be when I just ate. I eat a really balanced diet as well - not all chips and UPF that people on here would imply is my issue
.
I don’t know if underweight people get it because it’s not something I discuss irl because I’m embarrassed. People look at you like you’re either greedy or weak or whatever - much like the tone of some of the posters in this thread.

Theres very little compassion abut it because of this.

Them you get the people that say just don’t buy whatever the trigger food is. I don’t have a trigger food. I can be nicely full and get fruit or toast or chocolate or cheese or it could be a biscuit or whatever. I’d have to keep my house devoid of food! I also find that if you “forbid” something, you’re more likely to go crazy for it at the first opportunity.

It’s really hard but it’s my day to day experience as well as that of a lot of other people hiding by this thread despite the naysayers. Apparently we aren’t even allowed to call it food noise anymore either.