AIBU to end a tenancy so my niece can live there?

[SunnyDaysAndCoolNights]

We have a house that we rent out to a family with 2 children who have been in the house for about 7 years. The house is in the same city that our niece is at university in.

Just after Xmas, my niece asked us if she could live in the house for her second and third year at uni, (possibly longer) as the houses she had looked at weren’t very nice and she can’t stay in halls.

After speaking to my husband, we decided to say yes and we gave our tenants a section 21 notice in February. Our tenants were/are not happy and have been advised to stay in the house by the council. We thought that may happen which is why we served the notice in February despite my niece not needing the house until September. We were also aware of the new rules coming in soon which would make it harder to end a tenancy.

Since finding out that we have ended the tenancy for our current tenants, my brother and his wife (not nieces parents) have told us that we are ‘typical arsehole landlords’ for ‘kicking out a family’. They think our niece, also their niece is selfish for asking, that she could have found somewhere herself and that we should have put our tenants first as they have been our tenants for quite a long time and they have children. My brother and his wife rent with their children, so obviously that may play a part in their feelings on this. I feel upset they would say these things as I think it’s normal to put your own family first. My other brother and his wife who are parents of my niece are very annoyed at our other brother and his wife.

Would you have done the same as we have or would you have put the tenants first and said no to your niece? I do have sympathy for my tenants, they’re a nice family and have been good tenants, but obviously we love our niece and to us, she comes first.

I initially voted YANBU as of course it is your property and you are entitled to take it back through the correct legal channels. Which is what you’re doing.

However, pps do have a very valid point re the family with children who live there. This must be horribly stressful for them. As they’ve been very good tenants it does seem a bit short sighted, as your niece is unlikely to want to stay as long as they would.

The law is the law, of course, but it is changing for good reason.

Just reading your update here, would it not have been possible for your niece to just live with you? Seems more sensible than uprooting a family so a single teenager can rattle around in that house. Plus if you’re charging nominal rent to her, you’re missing out on the income.

Ok. So she knows you are kicking people out to let her move in. Personally I would really struggle living somewhere knowing my request had made someone else homeless.

If she stays with you every weekend why didn't you let her move in with you and charge her rent? Particularly if she's vulnerable which you say she is. I don't mean that you need to take responsibility for all her needs - what I mean is - if she struggles and needs support who will provide it

I personally think it's sometimes better not to rent to family as if it does go wrong - it could ruin your relationship.
For example. If she doesn't pay bills or stops paying rent. You had a family who were by all accounts good tenants. I think that's quite important for landlords.

I do get to a point that you probably feel like you were caught between a rock and a hard place - but your niece must have had other options. If she's known last year that the accommodation she was in wasn't suiting her needs then she's surely had plenty of time to find something else?

I do get that students have a hard time getting accommodation. I'm one myself but I don't need to move as my degree is online. But - you also surely need to consider the dynamics of renting to family. What happens if it goes wrong. You say your niece is quiet and rarely goes out - she could meet someone and move them in with her. If she has friends who do go out and party a lot she could be pressured to bring people back

This has the potential to go wrong even if it doesn't seem like that at the moment

My mum was very briefly a landlord and it all went wrong. She was left the house. It wasn't worth much - less than 30k but she rented it to a family through a letting agency run by someone she knew. Glowing references. They trashed the place and she had to spend a lot of money on repairs and then she got rid of it once they moved out - they did a runner

I think that's going to have to be something you need to be mindful of. That it doesn't turn into a party flat even though she's not into that sort of lifestyle.

That’s where I obviously disagree with the majority on here. My loved ones will always come first.

She doesn't though does she? You're just looking for ways to justify this morally reprehensible decision.

Your niece would absolutely be better off in campus accommodation (many universities have studios). She has far more options than this family, and you know it.

I think it's a very poor decision.

Well that’s one out of 301

With respect (have an autistic DD in first year of uni too), living in crap student quality level accommodation is part of the experience and build resilience - just as necessary in an autistic person as a NT one. It sounds as though your family have enough resources to subsidise an upgrade in her accommodation to a decent studio/one bed flat. Maybe not as close to college as DN would like, but again at some point DN is going to be able to manage this, or are you all going to subsidise when she is working or ensure she lives with family all her life? Students in Warwick [for example] commute all the way from Leamington Spa and Coventry because of affordable rents; other students commute to London unis from home or outside the M25 for the same reason. Given the ND population of most universities is higher than the general population, many many of those will be autistic/ND but don’t have family money to provide a safety net.

From experience, bubble wrapping an autistic person does them a disservice. It infantilises them and denies them the opportunity to grow. Their self confidence comes from being able to learn how to cope independently, not from being rescued.

I think you would have been wiser as a family to go back to the drawing board, pool financial resources and either help her get a nice property albeit a little further away or help her find a flat/house share.

ETA - ps DN should also be on the priority list via the DSA part of her student loan application that would give her access to campus halls throughout her uni degree, btw. No need to evict a family when this is available to support students like her.

But you’re also not doing your niece a massive favour long term op. She will have better job opportunities after graduation if she has had experience at being more adaptable at sharing accommodation and can therefore be more flexible about where she moves to. She won’t be able to afford to live somewhere by herself in most places I wouldn’t think.

A few people have suggested that your niece stays with you (as she has been) for years 2 and 3.
Is that not an option?

I don't think YABU, when I had a BTL i always said I would never no fault evict anyone within 5 years of starting a tenancy, because I think that is unacceptable and believe it should be standard practice. If you can't run a business with a 5 year plan then you shouldn't run it at all. But beyond 5 years, life changes, your niece has grown-up, you have a home to provide to her, she is family.

Would anyone see it as a problem if you had bought the property 7 years ago with your own child in mind and rented it out in the mean time?

I'm almost always on the side of landlords on these posts. I rented my own home out for a few years when I moved abroad so have been a landlord. I hate the overwhelmingly negative view the majority of mumsnetters seem to have about landlords.

However, I think what you have done is very, very wrong. As many have already said, you have made a family homeless. At a time that it is extremely difficult to get private rental properties. I understand everything you've said about her being autistic, I have an ND child myself, but frankly chucking a family out of where they have been living for 7 years because some of the places you looked at were "too small" is ridiculous (I know there were also other reasons but you stated "or" too small). Part and parcel of going to university and learning how to live away from home is understanding that everything can't be perfect, you may have to live in a small house if you don't want to share. You have to learn to negotiate life and all its complications.

I expect you're going to continue along the lines of "I'm doing what's best for family" and I can envisage some circumstances where you may be justified in throwing a family out of their home due to family members being in desperate circumstances but frankly, this isn't that.

I have done and do. What do you do for society?

No I don't but I'm a Landlord and I could never do this .. it's really awful and I don't wear pearls.

What happens when your niece graduates and has to move somewhere else, do all her relatives own properties in cities she wants to live in?

morally this was not the right decision for the tenants, you have destabilised an entire family.

but that aside it feels you’re coddling and enabling your niece. Being an adult involves having to make tough decisions - sometimes you can’t afford to live where you want and have to cycle a bit further or live somewhere maybe not so nice and polished - unless mega wealthy it’s about these trade offs. Living with others makes things cheaper too even if it might not be what she wants.

I wonder if she really looked hard for a suitable place knowing that she could just ask for you to make a family homeless as an easy fallback. Does she care at all about them? what type of person do you want her to be / grow into adult life like, what values are you teaching her are important?

yes as most people we will put family first - but it’s a level of scale. An entire family homeless and evicted vs inconvenience of a longer cycle / commute doesn’t feel fair or proportionate to me. Are you helping your niece in the long run by doing this, what type of message does it teach her?

So would mine in a life or death situation and I would always prioritise their well being over my own . But not in the situation you describe.
I can't believe your niece couldn't have found something else suitable perhaps with financial support from you given you say money is object.

The pious 'I'm putting my niece first' is coming over ridiculous.

Op id ignore any landlords giving you grief on this thread tbh. They arent letting their property out out of the goodness of their hearts after all 😬

If it wasn't your niece it might have been a brother or sister, friend etc. It is what it is, its shitty having to rent but circumstances change and this stuff will happen.

If money is not the issue why not help your niece with a more expensive property.

she doesn’t need a house. A good city centre flat probably won’t cost much more than a house, will be safer and more secure for her on her own, and you can choose an area with a good commute to uni.

seems a bit mad to evict a family for one person.

Yep, and I have volunteered with the homeless and now volunteer with a footbank. Have done for many years.

I wouldn't have don't it. Your niece is likely to only want it for a year and then you'll be looking for new tenants

This is a Families home , children will be in local schools. It's quite shitty tbh

This. 100%

As other people have said your niece had other options. She could have rented a room via spare room. There are student accommodations that are self contained bedsits where she would rarely need to see another student. She's not homeless. She wasn't in a crisis situation. She's a student who clearly didn't like the accommodation she was in last year

These weren't people who moved in last week. They are a settled family I assume with kids who are either at school or are about to go to school. It's your house but it's been their home. I understand legally you have the right to serve them notice - but family coming first doesn't separate the fact that this family could end up in horrible insecure accommodation, with kids

what a wicked thing to do. Shame on you

Yes it's your choice, and you are not going to change your mind. I just wondered why you asked.

I am with your brother a family have lost their home. You feeling sorry for them because you have a guilty conscience does not help them. You are just trying to seek
validation. I could not have done it. Your niece has autism, if you are so concerned why not have her live with you and leave the poor family alone.
Personally I don't believe you give a shit for this family and I think what you have done is very nasty, but you jog on you eerr going to anyway.

Or have, you know, experienced homelessness and insecure housing first hand.