Do people genuinely believe 'you should get her/him sectioned' as some sort of option?

[likelysuspect]

I see this sort of comment quite a lot on here and its cropped up in another thread.

'you should consider getting her sectioned'

And the OP is thanking the poster for the useful advice!!

The issue around sectioning has also come up a lot in the threads about the Southport killer and on threads about children with that sort of presentation

It astounds me that in this day and age people still think that you can 'get someone sectioned' as if you just phone someone and the black Maria comes and gets them.

Yes, you are right.

Anecdata rather than an evidence base though.

Thank you for the explanation of SMI. It's helpful to have acronyms explained. But I stand by everything else I have written, as being fairly typical of what non MH professionals think is idiocy, and completely at odds with public safety.

Both were extremely violent & dangerous. Both should have been arrested & in prison. There was an outstanding warrant for VC at the time of his attacks.
In both cases their mental illnesses had affected them and had been a factor, but ultimately they committed heinous crimes and were extremely violent & dangerous men.

Are you referring to VC and AR when you "stand by what you said"?

Because, for what it is worth, I agree with you. They should have been arrested/detained.

I do object to the implication that all people with SMI are dangerous and should be sectioned.

I would strongly encourage you to please start your own thread. This one was really interesting and, I think, educational.

Glad we agree on that point at least! I am not being deliberately argumentative (I hope). I agree MH care needs to be much improved, but where are the funds needed to do this going to come from? We are already paying the highest rates of income tax across the population since 1948. You can't stop wealthy people leaving the country.

Now there's a question we can't hope to answer - and again, not relevant to the original point of the thread.

MH problems tend to be profoundly multifactorial in nature so there's no silver bullet.

What would you like to see in place?

Surely with VC his schizophrenia was 100% to blame. He was not like that before he developed psychosis I don't think? Hence him being in a secure hospital whilst AR isn't.

I think (and you can tell me I am deluded) that there should be in every county a secure facility in which to hold/incarcerate the fairly small number of really dangerous people. Not the purely criminal, nor the intoxicated (police cells for those); the difficulty would be in determining which are really deranged and dangerous to normal society and everyday life. I don't know enough to offer a useful opinion here.

This reminds of a thread a few years ago where OP's DM was still living with a very abusive partner and had no way to leave. She was suicidal as a result, and several people told OP to "get her sectioned" as a way to get her away from the abuse. Wrong on several levels.

I had a friend who took in her DS's ex off the street, and the lady ended up psychotic (drug induced) and making my friend's life hell. The local MH team were not interested. Just said that the lady needs to contact her GP (which is never going to happen as she thinks she is fine and everyone else is out to get her).

There is a such a high bar for being sectioned. I think people tend to watch the soaps and think that you just call someone, and your loved one is carted off to hospital (and gets a local bed straight away). It does not work like that at all.

Can people please stop equating serious mental illness with murdering please?! It’s incredibly offensive and bigoted.

The thing is, there are hospitals like that - Rampton, Broadmoor, Ashworth etc. Not in every county, but realistically that's not required (and many detained people would be delighted to stay in the same county when it is often not possible).

I also believe (if I'm wrong someone please correct me), that hospital orders can be indefinite, unlike most prison sentences with the exception of very rare whole life terms.

And again for those in the back!

@Franjipanl8r fortunately, most of us will not encounter murderers or the level of serious mental illness being discussed at first hand. But that doesn't mean we don't fear it. Nor does the fear of it make a person a bigot.

Not a bigot, but perhaps not realising that people with SMI are more likely to be a victim of violence than be the perpetrator.

See, this is what makes me frustrated.

People bang on about how they're is much less stigma in MH and how good it is to bring your whole self to work.

And I'm sure that's true for lower level anxiety and depression.

Meanwhile, those of us with SMI are feared because it is perceived that we are a possible risk to others. As evidenced by this thread.

My manager knows that I experience psychosis and he knows what to watch out for (he's ace). But there is no other situation where I would use the "P" word at work.

It IS stigmatising and I would be viewed differently.

I'm not I'm talking about one specific person?

You are completly derailing the thread from the original point the op was making. The thread is about the terminology used in regards to someone being detained under the mha. None of what you are posting is relevant. At all. Some of its pretty offensive actually to those with smi who are posting on here.

Honestly it’s nonsense. And this thread is more of a danger to mentally unwell people than a phrase. What else are you going to call it?

Perhaps ARs parents didn’t know he could be sectioned. They didn’t know that was an option they could fight for. If you read this thread certainly people believe that. Perhaps they thought if he was sectioned he may never come back. Perhaps they thought their relationship would be ruined forever and he would grow out of it.

I don’t know but I firmly to this day believe they could have got him sectioned. The only people which see mentally unwell people in their entirety are the people they live with -their partners, parents, flat mates. Why they didn’t is the most important question.

And someone who knows. Thank the lord. We need a national campaign on serious mental illness. First episode psychosis symptoms. Help available and how to access it. And we need it now!

@Blahblahblahabla , can you unpick that please, I didn't understand what you wrote?

What is a nonsense?

Thank you. Apparently I'm a bigot for not putting a disclaimer of "most people with schizophrenia aren't murderers" 🙄as if I said they were...some people will look for offence anywhere.

I'm sure the "that's stigmatising" crowd will successfully manage to shut anyone up who actually wants to have a genuine discussion about this subject. I hope someone does start another thread I think it'd be really interesting and enlightening.

Of course you can get a family member sectioned. Who else is going to do it?

@Firefly1987 , this (originally very good) thread has been massively derailed.

I'm one of the "that's stigmatising" crowd that you mention. Because, like it or not, they're is a stigma surrounding SMI. I've lost friends because of it. It sucks. I do everything I can to hide my illness.

And I'm not clear what the topic of this "genuine discussion" would be - some posts, and I don't mean yours necessarily- have been badly written.

What is it specifically that you want to discuss? I agree, a separate thread is a good idea.

Speaking more broadly, could we please be considerate and respectful towards each other? And ideally be clear about your comment or question when posting.

And please don't forget that when you post there are real people living with debilitating SMI reading your comments behind the screens.

No, @Blahblahblahabla . You are wrong.

Family members cannot section. Full stop.

https://nearestrelativeresources.bristol.ac.uk/about-the-mental-health-system/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

As for "who else will do it?", that would be under the remit of an AMHP and 2 doctors with at least one being S12 approved.

https://oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/support-advice/getting-help/your-rights/?highlight=section+3+nature+or+degree&utm_source=chatgpt.com