parkrun defending their position

[Funtime2]

I used to be a parkrunner and do not understand how parkrun can defend their position of allowing trans identfying males into the female category.

I read that 280 published race winners in the female category are actually men identifying as women. How is this fair to women? Some women don’t care about this but some women do, just as some men take it as a race and care about the rankings and some men don’t

The other option of course is they could stop the timing, stop recording winners and records?

AIBU to genuinely not understand why parkrun claim not to be a race when they time the runners, publish times by category, rank times and runners, and have record holders by category.

I find the attitude of some of the ‘mothers’ on this thread worrying. If you’re happy to see women’s rights being handed to men, what other rights do you think your daughters should give up to men. what sort of message do you think this is giving them?

Do better!

You do know it was originally called the Bushy Park Time Trial? Doesn’t sound like a fun run to me. Even when it moved into something more inclusive of different abilities the intent was the timings not just the run itself.

Indeed. It's as if outside of their own particular bubble, they just don't care one jot or see the wider picture. It's really upsetting because fundamentally these people are saying that males and their feelings are more important than my DD and her feelings. Why?! Just why?!

My DH stopped running the Park run because of this.

I think that also some people will take what parkrun says as being correct without ever thinking further about it. Just because parkrun makes false statements about it being 'not competitive', some people simply repeat that without thinking... well fuck... why then are there course records noted down and published.

The contradictory position is exactly why parkrun is now subject to legal action. It cannot make such false claims and expect that people will simply fucking believe them.

I’m still unclear as to what you are saying.

You've said:
For non sports, i think in practice you can have a group for women plus trans women.
Because you can have a group for women and a group for trans women and the two groups can do everything together.
It’s different for charities, like WI and Girl Guides, where you need to restrict to women only.

Then:
”There are specific provisions in the Equality Act for sports and single-sex provision. I am talking about associations”

You seem to be saying that it’s ok for any other group to limit themselves to whatever they want e.g. women and males with the PC of gender reassignment, unlike WI/GG where they have to be female only.

But it’s you cannot discriminate, apart from certain exemptions (which the WI/GG have chosen to do), which the group you suggest would not fulfil the criteria.

Some posters can’t see beyond their own ideas and are not very inclusive.

This is something I can see both sides of. I definitely get most people’s arguments on here and see that the categories are fairer by sex. That is what I was saying earlier. But the other side is that parkrun want to make everyone welcome and transpeople would not feel welcome with a change in the rules. I know some women do not feel welcome at the moment so from that point of view there is no right answer. I actually feel the welcome is the most important in the context of parkrun - I think HQ are trying to start with that to be fair to them.

Ah yes I see. It seems that some people are happy to parrot words unthinkingly and don’t worry about looking silly when the facts are clear as day. Sometimes I think it must be pleasant to be so oblivious to what’s actually going on around you.

So, you think that HQ is prioritising male people with trans identities over female people so that that small group feel 'welcome'?

Then parkrun HQ have ignored 51% of population to do so. That is not welcoming.

parkrun has their priorities completely arse about face. They have prioritised validating a male person’s identity over half of the population.

People can tick the ‘prefer not to say’ option then can’t they? It’s what any decent trans person would do. You don’t have to declare yourselves male or female. You’re not being forced to lie.

I get that yes. They want to welcome everyone and in trying to do so have overlooked the women who care about the competition. It isn’t just transwomen who would feel unwelcome if they changed things - there are a lot of people who would be very angry about it. Just as there are now.

Yes they can - If the trans community could all agree that third spaces was the answer it would solve quite a large percentage of the issues raised on these boards. But that doesn’t look like it’s about to happen.

Trans people can surely feel welcome if there are no categories and no rankings or timings?

There's still so many things going on like this, things really need tightening up since the law has been clarified.

I noticed the new Zedwell capsule hotel in London is charging 30 quid a night per capsule. For a capsule on the women only floor its more expensive. Plus the page says very clearly that transwomen are welcome.

So not only are Zedwell persecuting women by charging them more to be safe, they are then snatching that safety away by allowing transwomen who are every bit as much a risk to women as men (because they are in fact men) to inhabit the women only areas.

The law has been been clarified, Parkrun need to find a way to police cheating men properly. No one would accept a white person inserting themselves into something reserved for people of colour or able bodied people in disabled categories.

Either Parkrun get rid of timings or they do their job properly and stop men appropriating things that belong to women.

Angry that parkrun is following the law about sex discrimination?

Well, perhaps those people who will be angry should seek to understand what sex discrimination laws mean and stop trying to undermine them. Supporting a group of male athletes should not come at the price of harming female athletes. Just because some people don’t understand, or choose to ignore, that harm shouldn’t cause parkrun to be discriminating against female people the way they are.

I am sure you understand this. But parkrun’s decision to reject the law will not be adequate defence in court by them stating it was a popular decision to do so.

My goodness, another company to avoid.

Thanks @Petrolitis

Some adults identify as children, and may feel unwelcome because parkrun don't explicitly allow them to identify into a lower age category. Should they change the policy to be more inclusive here?

Well yes maybe, but I think that most parkrunners wouldn’t bother with parkrun anymore if there was no timing. It would make all the people who hate parkrun happy I guess because the numbers would drop so much.

where is the inclusivity for women?!!!

Who hates parkrun though?

Have you just categorised people trying to get parkrun to follow the law as people who hate parkrun?

parkrun need to make a decision either way. They cannot continue the way they have been. They either change the policy to make sex categories non-inclusive of anyone who is not of that sex category, or they completely remove any competitive element.

They have made this mess, they shall have to work out what their future will be. Currently, they are actively discriminating against female parkrunners. I would suggest that if people are supporting that discrimination, they are not really the inclusive people they think they are.

I think the difference is that women are asking for something reasonable - fair and equal treatment to men.

The demands of the trans activists are unreasonable - that a certain group are given special privileges to have their self declared identities prioritised over reality and fairness for everyone else.

Here's a link for the EHRC Code of Practice (obviously not updated for the Supreme Court decision). Section 12 covers Associations and there's a part headed 'Associations may restrict membership to persons who share a protected characteristic' which hopefully explains it better.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/equality/equality-act-2010/codes-practice/services-public-functions-and-associations-code-0

Who hates parkrun though?
Have you just categorised people trying to get parkrun to follow the law as people who hate parkrun?

Not at all - sorry there is another thread going currently about fast parkrunners being rude to slower parkrunners and also parkruns in general taking over parks and making other park users uncomfortable (or swearing at them and pushing them out of the way). Lots of people on there hate parkrun. I am just conflating the two threads.

Parkrun is a social event, not the London Marathon. It’s about encouraging everyone in the community to come together and improve their physical and mental wellbeing. If you’re not happy with that, there are millions of formal races that you could take part in where categorising people fairly is paramount. The focus of Parkrun is inclusion and they have made that clear, so either embrace it or go with the many other alternatives. YABU. (If we were talking about the London Marathon, I would agree with you).