parkrun defending their position

[Funtime2]

I used to be a parkrunner and do not understand how parkrun can defend their position of allowing trans identfying males into the female category.

I read that 280 published race winners in the female category are actually men identifying as women. How is this fair to women? Some women don’t care about this but some women do, just as some men take it as a race and care about the rankings and some men don’t

The other option of course is they could stop the timing, stop recording winners and records?

AIBU to genuinely not understand why parkrun claim not to be a race when they time the runners, publish times by category, rank times and runners, and have record holders by category.

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

“For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable what then?”

“The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth.”

I never quite understood 1984 until this ideology became mainstream - I didn't quite believe reality-denial could happen.

It's been absolutely fascinating to witness people saying that

men are women and
sex isn't binary and
an event with rankings and firsts has no competitive elements at all.

I can totally understand people saying that

some men believe woman should be redefined to include them, and
we're developing our knowledge of variations in sex development, and
Parkrun is treated as a competition by some, but not the majority...

...All these are rational and evidence-based. I could understand them being the dominant arguments here.

But they're so often not.

And 2+2=5 is.

Orwell was a bloody visionary.

But the whole ethos of parkrun has always been timed trials. That was how it was envisaged and how it is set up to function. Everything about it screams time trials. It was never a community fun run to get people active. That came later to support the case of it growing. If that were the case that is was just a bit of fun and activity they would have stopped the timings or simply just sent to timings to individuals. The element of competition pervades the whole organisation. If you remove the timings, I am sure you will lose at least half the runners, hence why they haven’t done it

parkrun show position right to the last place. This is shown as a position.

My first parkrun was when there was only one parkrun in the world - Bushy Park. There were no ‘jimmy joggers’ in sight. The average time was probably somewhere around 20 mins. It was for competitive runners. To say the ethos of it is a community group hug inclusion sort of thing is total nonsense.

I’m sure the two posters will ignore all the evidence and come back to say but it’s not a competition.

It’s reminding me of kids that swear blind they didn’t eat the chocolate but have chocolate smeared all over heir hands and face. If I just keep saying it and don’t engage with the evidence they’ll believe me.

It's only a competition if you go online, look and cry at everybody else's score, and try and turn it into one by looking and comparing yourself to Runny McRunnerson.
In real life, whilst you're there, everybody but the wannabe marathon runners barging everybody out of the way (which was said upthread they'd found bargers) are just enjoying the run, the exercise and looking to see how they did compared to last week and hoping to improve the next.

Parkrun CEO on radio 4 you and yours now talking about 'parity of genders' taking part.
Pity gender is crap data.

She also referred to age. I do actually know some people who lied on registering their child to make them over 11 so they could run alone.

exactly so no issue with people being the correct sex and age categories then. For the people who are competitive it matters, for everyone else I don’t think it is even worth them giving age and sex as all that matters is your time against yourself

Why do you think people would cry?

How odd.

You really don’t get it at all.

It's got to change and it will change. People will be told to register by sex. These groups always have a good old moan when outed as illegal and woman hating but they always change in the end. I'm looking at you girl guides and the WI. Likewise the Hampstead ponds will change. Change or close are the options.

I think they’ll scrap times and tables personally, although the best thing for parkrun would be to re-instate the ability to filter the stats by sex. As long as their definition of sex complies.

Why do you think people would cry?
It's a figure of speech.
You haven't heard of it?
How odd.

Change or close are the options
Do it our way or close down!
If that was coming from the "other side" there'd be collective outrage.

No just asking for an extra category of sex. You can keep gender if you want. It’s a tiny admin change that will add less than a second of people filling in the form. What’s the problem?

Honestly, it's just so revealing that we continually get this instead of mature engagement with the issue at hand.

In the face of considered arguments that we just want full parity for females, and solutions to this... we get accusations of hate, crying and some kind of political agenda (and some ripe insults).

In the face of long-term tabulated rankings, "firsts" and "records"... we get the persistent denial that it's in any way competitive "coz that's what they say and therez no meddles".

This determined avoidance of the issue at hand (that transwomen want one thing, while a significant proportion of women want another, so how do we weigh this up and decide, and how do we justify that decision etc.) is precisely what reveals that Houston, we really do have a problem here.

I wish these posters would just acknowledge that people want different things: transwomen conflict with women, and both fun runners and competitive runners exist, and all deserve open discussion of this.

To just repeatedly say the problem doesn't exist OR you're ridiculous / pathetic / bigotted for thinking it does etc....

...is to expose exactly the kind of narrow-mindedness - of bloody-mindedness! - that these posters see in us.

It's worrying.

It’s a legal point as opposed to being a side

Well said.

Don't be silly.

Publish records by sex, as per the law.

What's so difficult about that? Why don't you think women deserve to have their category maintained fairly?

They'll probably stop the placements and timings for a while and then try to bring them in via the backdoor - as they have done in the past.

Anything, ANYTHING rather than having to say no to entitled men who want women's stuff.

So what are the rankings for then?

Please could you answer this?

Why do they collect the data on male and female runners when their criteria is inaccurate?

That’s actually the bit I don’t understand.

Surely all they need is a tick box for biological sex. That is it!

Everyone welcome, run as you want, slow fast, what ever identity, dog or no dog.

If they want to collect data it has to be accurate or don’t do it.

Park run is really not that serious. I run alongside my trans friend every week, and every week I beat her despite the fact I’m biologically female and she’s not. Life’s too short to care about this

Park Run is staffed by volunteers - just people from local charities and running groups, I have done it before - and it would not be fair to expect them to police people's sex/gender identity as they come over the final line. We have an average of 600 runners a week at my local one and of course it has to be self-ID because how would you realistically police it?

Don't come after Park Run! It's just fun and politics-free.

For you maybe. You understand that many other women would like the same rights that men have? Fair competition

How about the 280 winners in the female category that are male?

If it's not all that serious why record times and give our 'best female'? Why have 'best female' include men?