To think ParkRun need to consider banning racers?

[justletusrun]

My local parkrun has been overtaken by drama this week, after some men attended and basically turned the entire thing into a glorified race for themselves. They were pushing people out of the way, swearing at them and shouting at them to let them through.

I always thought the point of parkrun was to go and enjoy a 5k run and some socialising after. But it seems that across the country they’re being overtaken by people who are obsessed with “winning” it and getting the PB as a “chip time”.

i understand the sense of achievement you get from getting a PB, but I don’t think parkrun is the place to do it. Myself and many other women who have been attending for years are now considering not going again because it is so unpleasant.

AIBU to say they need to clamp down on this, before it becomes a big men’s club?

Unfortunately some parkruns are too popular for the routes used.

I agree that it was unacceptable for them to be pushing/shouting

For a while I have believed that parkrun needs a graded starting system. For example if you run sub 20 minutes you start at the front. sub 25 behind this flag, sub 30 behind the next flag etc

Whilst the idea is perhaps not 'in keeping with the spirit' of the event there are an inordinate number of runners who start too near the front relative to their abililty.

Its about 1 hour a week!

Do you think people materialise and sixty minutes later they disappear?

I imagine the really busy part of parkrun only lasts for about 45 min in most places. All the fastest runners (that lots of people seem to object to) will have been and gone within 25 min....

Lots of running clubs or coaches recommend parkruns for improving your 5k (and other) times so joining a running club isnt an alternative to parkrun. Most of my friends from running club do club sessions during the week, and parkrun most weekends.

Nobody should be pushing, shoving, barging, swearing, spitting or overtaking in a dangerous manner. That is the same in a race, on a running track...or anywhere really. But being "inclusive" surely include both ends of the scale. The people that take 17 minutes and the people that take over an hour. And everyone in between.

I really don't understand slow runners that try to get in the front of the pack. It just means that for the next half an hour you're getting passed by 3 or 4 hundred people. It'll also use up your energy faster and you'll get a slower time at the end.

Kind of...
The parkrun i do most often, I frequently volunteer. Often im standing there at 8.50, thinking its not very well attended ...and it looks like maybe 50 people are there...in the next 10 minutes another 200 people usually turn up. Its not a particularly fast course, but the first person is usually 18 or 19 min and the last one just over an hour....but id say majority of people (that were running) are dispersing, or drifting towards the cafes by 9.45. The main paths are generally quite empty by then. It takes maybe until 10.15 to pack away the cones/finish etc, but our start/finish area is in the middle of a very large expanse of grass, unlikely to be impeding any other park users. The course set up is done before 9 but doesnt entail closing any paths so if anyone was dog walking, or exercising i doubt putting a few cones down would impact them.

No, actually, I wasn't suggesting an organised event or, at least, not one like Park run with marshalls and badges and a website and a logo.

I think Parkrun is fantastic and I’m glad there’s somewhere that everyone from racers to strollers can go and take part for free. There are a couple of things that could be done to make the situation easier. Faster runners at the front, slower/walkers at the back obviously. Make it very clear which side is the passing side (this seems to vary and isn’t always clearly communicated by RDs). Where possible have a single loop course or maybe a maximum of 2 laps to reduce the number of times the fast runners are overtaking the slower ones, same for avoiding routes with very narrow tracks. I have taken part on a 3 lap narrow route and it’s not fun if you’re at the back! Personally I would not allow buggies to be pushed on those types of courses (same as dogs are not always allowed). More marshalls (and everyone has to volunteer after x number of Parkruns or no more times recorded).

Ultimately whatever the type of course, it’s down to all the users of that space to be considerate and tolerant of each other. Same as on our roads 🤔 - unfortunately some people act in a rude, entitled and dangerous way and need to be pulled up for it.

The free thing seems important to lots of people. It seems odd to me when if you want to play football on a pitch you pay for it, if they have a fair in our local park they pay but adults can't make a small contribution for their run? Say you have 400 runners every week and they pay £1 that's £20k a year that could be used to improve facilities or subsidise kids who can't afford to play a sport they love. Would that £1 stop people and if it would does the run matter that much?

So it isn't 60 minutes.

It’s one on the three things that makes it a parkrun. Free, weekly and timed. I think lots of people would pay £1 but parkrun want to reduce barriers to participation as much as possible and keeping it ‘free for everyone forever’ is one of their mantras.

It does matter to people. People pay to park at lots of events and that money goes to the landowner and then they put money into the economy by going out for breakfast afterwards.

High participation rates mean a lot of custom at park cafes too. Also plenty of people using the loos which helps make the case for keeping them open and regularly checked, thus benefiting all park users. In days of yore our park had no cafe and the loos were more often closed than open because of vandalism. Better for everybody if lots of people use the park.

And what's worse, the men who can't beat the other men pretend to be women

My park has no cafe and no loos. Maybe if the park runners had paid we could have had loos but of course they didn't.

Shame noone can encourage kids by waving fees for them for sports they want to enjoy.

Maybe they could put out buckets for donations.

Well, now your park has lost its parkrun I imagine the chance of getting a cafe and loos is a lot less than it was. You win some, you lose some.

What I think you perhaps haven't considered here is that children trying out different sports and then really working hard at the ones they like need skilled, carefully vetted coaches with the right insurance in place in case anything goes wrong. There are some very dedicated amateurs out there who do coaching around their jobs and family responsibilities, but even they need to be working within a structure for their sport which means there have to be people in there who're getting paid because it's their job. Therefore sports teams and clubs need some funding, whether that comes from the participants or from the local council or a grant-awarding body.

None of this applies to parkrun. There is no coaching going on. It's been carefully designed so that every single aspect can be delivered by volunteers with minimal training.

You clearly don't like it. Fair enough. Nothing that anybody has said has changed your mind, even though it's no longer running in your local park, so it's no longer having any effect on your life.

If they were genuinely pushing people, that's terrible. Swearing I wouldn't be bothered by unless it was directed at someone. However, i think its absolutely fine to go fast and swerve round people.

So they say. But it is lol.

We haven't lost anything. How odd that you think we have. As if the council are going to build toilets and a cafe because park run were using the park for free.

I wasn't talking about other cost just the pitch hire costs.

The reason I don't like PR is totally down to the behaviour of runners I've encountered and if you've read the thread you know my experience isn't unique.

parkrun was originally a competitive time-trial for a group of keen running friends. For the first few years of it's life it was even named "Bushy Park Time Trial" or "BPTT"!

Over the years, it has been made more an more inclusive which is obviously an amazing thing. It is now a massive force for good and so many people have benefitted from participating, volunteering and spectating at all levels. It's a genuine social movement.

However it is completely disingenuous to say "it was never for racers" or that faster runners go against the spirit of it. The whole point is that it is for EVERYONE!

I am not a hugely fast runner in the scheme of things but when I am fit I can often come in top 10 women and 1st-3rd in my ae category. I use it as a really useful training tool to run in "race" conditions and in a crowd. I start in the first 2-3 rows and go off hard and fast, and race to the end.

I am also considerate, stay left where possible to allow overtaking, overtake on the right with a wide berth, thank all the volunteers etc.

The problem is not fast runners. They have as much right to be there as you.

Inconsiderate, rude, and aggressive people should obviously not be tolerated. If you encounter them, report them to a volunteer and if they repeat-offend they will be banned. Equally you should show consideration, staying left, going single file in narrow areas, allowing people to pass considerately etc.

TL;DR -
parkrun is for racing
parkrun is for fast runners
parkrun is for newbies
parkrun is for coming back from injury
parkrun is for kids
parkrun is for dogs
parkrun is for getting out the house
parkrun is for community spirit
parkrun is for social interaction
parkrun is for a sense of worth
parkrun is for everyone.

I get that a large volume of people/runners can be intimidating/potentially problematic for other park users, or they feel they cant use that area safely. that part doesnt last an hour The vast majority of people taking part will arrive ("materialise"), do parkrun and leave ("disappear") the course within an hour.

10-20 people spread out, putting down or piCking up cones does exceed the hour, i admit...or the 10 or so people that might take more than an hour to complete the course, but i very much doubt anyone is inconvenienced by them (walking) . Or are they....?

In terms of paying, parkrun is largely facilitated by volunteers, it would add an extra level of admin to collect money/check people had paid etc. Many council car parks or country parks charge for parking. A lot would get extra revenue from parkrunners. Especially in unpleasant weather.

The vast majority of amateur grassroots sports clubs are run almost entirely by volunteers and any equipment, pitch hire, clubhouse costs, insurance and a raft of other overheads are raised through club membership subscriptions, they would not be viable otherwise. Most clubs offer concessions to students, unemployed, juniors etc. While free taster/introduction sessions are common clubs cant just be free for kids as they take up a huge amount of any clubs bandwidth and you are lucky to break even running any kind of juniors programme.

Again missing my point. Local authorities don't charge PR. They do charge the local children's football club to hire a pitch in the park. Without bringing other charges into it can you explain why that should be.