To think ParkRun need to consider banning racers?

[justletusrun]

My local parkrun has been overtaken by drama this week, after some men attended and basically turned the entire thing into a glorified race for themselves. They were pushing people out of the way, swearing at them and shouting at them to let them through.

I always thought the point of parkrun was to go and enjoy a 5k run and some socialising after. But it seems that across the country they’re being overtaken by people who are obsessed with “winning” it and getting the PB as a “chip time”.

i understand the sense of achievement you get from getting a PB, but I don’t think parkrun is the place to do it. Myself and many other women who have been attending for years are now considering not going again because it is so unpleasant.

AIBU to say they need to clamp down on this, before it becomes a big men’s club?

But clearly I would be a right prick if I started wandering through a route coned off for Parkrun. It's not a question of rights, it's a question of politeness and awareness of other people.

I return, I wish Parkrun were not right pricks in blocking my way through my local park every Saturday morning. They gather en masse, block the way through the park footpaths and don't seem to consider moving on the grass.

Many people compete against themselves so, in that way, it is a race. Most runners take part in organised races to get a PB, not to beat Mo Farrah.

Who are "HQ" to tell anyone to do anything in a public park? By what authority do Park run cone off park footpaths? Who selects these officious little jobsworths barking orders through their noisy megaphones?

HQ - can’t tell people what to do but they can refuse to give times to people who bring the organisation into disrepute. Landowners give permission for an event to go ahead on their land and that is where the authority comes from to mark routes and cone off finish funnels.

Officious little jobsworths like me are volunteers who take responsibility for the event and have to deal with any incidents such as those described here and find the courage to speak to the people who are not following the rules and have been rude to other park users. Chosen by their willingness to organise the event and allow others to run and be in the firing line for comments like yours. It would be much easier not to.

It's a shame so many of our local volunteers don't appear to have the organisational skill or courage to clear the paths of crowds of people, well before the run has started and well after it has finished. I hope you do.

Fortunately for me my parkrun isn’t that big. But I do think some Parkruns are too busy and I do get it. It must be intimidating to be surprised by 400+ runners taking up the path that you are walking on even if they are all very polite (which I know not everyone is). I tell everyone to be polite to other park users at the beginning of every event that I run direct.

The trouble is there are no easy ways to limit the numbers and still keep it as an inclusive event that anyone can spontaneously join.

👏👏👏

Basically, Parkrun is an imperfect thing in an imperfect world, which overall has more positives than negatives but, as with most things, the benefits and costs don't accrue to the same people.

I think this thread shows that there are some Parkruns which are now too big for where they are sited, but it's impossible to reduce numbers- how would they do it? If you say only first 500 get a time to try to cap it, it just disadvantages the slower runners who will stop coming. You can't stop people running the course and going through the timing tunnel as people effectively have their own "chip" (barcode).

Similarly, while I'm a "no men in women's sports" hardliner, I have some sympathy for PR on this - they don't even ask for proof of name or age- loads of people could be running in the wrong age category. How are they actually going to police gender? It's run by volunteers on a shoe string. Given you can't compare courses, so your time is contextual to the specific Parkrun (i.e. local) people are probably going to know if there's someone in the wrong category and just mentally discount them. I think they handled it badly (a statement along the lines of "well it's trust based and we don't have the resources to police it" might have been better) but possibly they had funders breathing down their necks.

My understanding is that they did look at not publishing the results so people would just receive their own time but they discovered that would massively reduce participation (i.e. people do want to know how they stack up against others, it's not just about their own time), so that means that people do view it as a race, even though it's "not a race".

So yes, it has a lot of contradictions and issues trying to be all things to all people, plus they have to deliver on their commitments under various funding agreements, most of which are focused on broadening participation.

I’ve been thinking about how to cap the numbers. They could do a pre registration system with a maximum number which could be different for each event. Only those pre registered would get a result. Of course you couldn’t stop people from running without preregistration but people do love their results and probably wouldn’t try and attend somewhere that was already ‘full’. If you could pre register up until 9 am it would mean that you could still be spontaneous.

The downsides would be that people who are less good at technology would be disadvantaged and it would mean turning people away (online and in advance). But there is always another week and another parkrun and it would make the experience better for those who could be there and also for other park users. It would solve the problem of inaugurals (new events could gradually increase their maximum) and (for example) Valentine’s Day at Valentines parkrun. I think the majority of events would not reach the maximums but maybe that’s because I am quite rural. It might cause uproar in London. People would forget and be fed up about it but that is the same as when they first brought in no barcode no result.

@MasterBeth parkrun only happens with the permission of the landowner (often, but not always, the local authority). The route is discussed and agreed in advance and the agreed route cannot be changed or deviated from without the permission of the landlowner.

The landowner can withdraw permission at any time - this often happens for safety reasons in bad weather or of the park is being used for another event and there isn't room.

Do if you want, petition your local authority to withdraw permission for a free , accessible event that uses part of the park for a mere hour a week, an event that improves the health and well being of thousands of people, an event so proven to be beneficial to mental and physicial health it is commonly prescribed on the NHS.

I think the majority of events would not reach the maximums but maybe that’s because I am quite rural. It might cause uproar in London. People would forget and be fed up about it but that is the same as when they first brought in no barcode no result

It would seem a shame but I can see there may need to be limits eventually. Bushy Park (which I do quite a lot) is sometimes really crazy. It's somewhat self limiting I suppose as the car park gets full so there are only so many non locals that can attend. There were about 1700 people last Saturday I think.

The non locals stay in the Teddington travel lodge and walk! 6000 + people managed to get there for their thousandth event. But for special days like that you could raise the limit and make plans and would have some sort of idea how many to expect.

Wow! I cycle there and always enjoy it but even at 2000 runners it feels a bit overwhelming. For me I mean, not trying to stop anyone else doing it!

As a regular runner, if want to run a fast time you pick your most suitable parkrun and travel to that. These parkruns are not going to be lapped as slower moving people get in the way. People trying to ‘race’ a busy, narrow 5 lapped parkrun course are stupid idiots.

As someone who started a parkrun those that moan about parkrun’s can get in the sea. There seems to be a lot of people who descend on a course at parkrun time just so they can get annoyed about the park runners. Get a life! Go 45 mins earlier or later!

For minimal financial outlay the government have found a way to be smashing their ‘get people moving’ goals. The owner of the land people are running on is 9 times out of 10 the council who couldn’t give a damn about you wanting to walk your cockerpoo that particular 30 min window and not being able to.

And the gender debate? You’d have to be a total arsehole to declare yourself female when you were born a male, when there are other gender options you could choose that didn’t upset 51% of the population. These total arseholes exist though.

To state the blindingly obvious, 500 teenagers riding bikes round and round a public footpath would not get permission from the owner of the land. parkrun does have permission and the route used is approved by the landowner. If other park users feel their local park is not suitable for parkrun or if the route needs adjustment to make it safer and less of a problem for other park users, you should bring that to the attention of the Event Director for your local parkrun and if that gets you nowhere go to the landowner - most likely the local council, sometimes the National Trust.

Politeness is a two way street. I wonder how constructive your feedback is, given that you refer to parkrun volunteers as officious little jobsworths and to parkrun itself as a middle-class self-appointed gang.

As someone who started a parkrun those that moan about parkrun’s can get in the sea. There seems to be a lot of people who descend on a course at parkrun time just so they can get annoyed about the park runners. Get a life! Go 45 mins earlier or later!

Why the hell should I avoid the woods during that time? ParkRun's own rules state that participants should be respectful of other users of the space. Maybe if they actually complied with this requirement, there wouldn't be as many people moaning.

Sometimes being there at the same time can't be avoided, depending on other things going on. It shouldn't be a no go area.

Politeness is a two way street.

It is. And it's often missing from the participants of my local run. This needs addressing by the course organisers, which it isn't.

But if you are going to go at that time you’re going to meet the parkrun. Accept that. You don’t HAVE to go to the woods do you? There are other options.

Are there? For the same type of walk? In fact, there aren't, no.

The participants of ParkRun also need to accept that they are meant to be considerate. It's the fact they're not which bothers me, not that they're there full stop. Give and take, isn't it?

I haven't read the full thread, I'm afraid, but I think jumping from 'some people were twatty at my local parkrun this week' to 'parkrun should ban racers' is a bit of a leap, and that's why I've voted YABU. Parkrun absolutely was intended for fast runners when it was first set up (think it was a fun time trial), but they can't call it a race because then they would need appropriate insurance, and they'd be on shaky ground with junior runners. Over time, it's grown to be more inclusive, and that's also a good thing. However, in my local parkrun it's actually the faster, more competitive runners who are far more considerate than the slower ones. It's not in a park, it's on public paths that are shared with cyclists and dogwalkers. I've noticed whenever I've accidentally forgotten it's parkrun time and needed to use that path to get somewhere that the 'racers' will keep to one side, let you know when they're coming etc., but the slower runners and walkers will often be three abreast, chatting, and not looking where they're going. Also can get quite shitty if you ring your bicycle bell to let them know you're there. My other local run is three laps of a park and again, the faster runners who go regularly all stick to the etiquette of passing on the right, letting people know when they're overtaking etc., but (some of the) slower runners completely ignore it.

So in conclusion I think it should be 'parkrun need to consider banning twats'.

I totally agree with this.
I'm wondering whether the "shouting" from faster runners which is considered rude or aggressive is simply something like "runner on your left" , or "faster runner coming through" basically to alert those ahead. I run in club or group runs often. If running in the countryside you might spread across quiet country lane to chat but if a front or back runner shouts "car" or "bollard" you know there's a potential hazard in front or behind and would move to one side. No one would take offence or refuse to move and expect a car to carry on travelling at runner pace!

Cyclists are allowed on the public paths in my local park. They absolutely have permission from the landowners. Cycle paths have been constructed to bring them there.

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm going over something said before.

I think racers like the ones you mentioned should be banned but it's fairly common practice to use park runs for improving your time. It's like race conditions in a relaxed atmosphere and as long as you're being considerate of other runners then it's fine.

Park run is fabulous as it's so inclusive and for people of all abilities. It's not about why people are at park run, it's about how they behave when they're there.

And this is why I stopped doing park runs. It’s all these hidden rules. Start at the back if your going to do X time, shout this if you want to get past, etc etc. I would rather just jog to my own pace without this hassle and stress.

You said If a group of 500 teenagers decided to ride bikes round and round a public footpath the Daily Mail would be screeching about mob rule. You were clearly suggesting an organised event, not just a lot of teenage cyclists all happening to descend on the park at once because the measures to encourage cycling had been so successful.

There is an element of what goes around comes around.
There are a lot of entitled people about and a lot of people who have experienced that will hold a grudge against the group, since the perpetrator rarely stays around to be identified.

Sadly some parkrun people are entitled type people, and some other parkrun people have an idea that being part of that gives them an entitlement over those who aren't.

My family member has altered the timing of his Saturday run to avoid the problems of parkrun, only to be faced by 4 voluteers ambling 4 abreast completely taking up a wide path 30 minutes before the run. They made no move at all to let him through and when he reached them he said (puffed) "OK, Fine. I'll move then." and went up on the grass.
There are organisations that would expect their people to behave better than private individuals when wearing the uniform, but that doesn't seem to be in the Parkrun culture, even if every venue page mentions that it's a shared path and participants should give way to the public, it feels like maybe that's a box ticking statement.