PIP for Anxiety

[IntelligenceIsFree]

AIBU to clear things up?

The current nasty rhetoric around disabled people at the moment is astounding. Society needs to be reminded that we are ALL one illness or accident away from disability.

Everyone knows someone who is gaming the system, yet the PIP fraud rate is extremely low. The public demonising, does not match the reality.

The hot topic is “anxiety” and how people with “anxiety” are gaming the system, getting “free” cars and robbing tax payers; this is being constantly fed through media, news articles and so on.

This is simply not true. The people spouting this nonsense clearly have no idea how PIP works. Nobody gets PIP without strong medical evidence. Nobody.

Before anyone posts “my neighbour got PIP just by telling lies”. No, they did not. That’s not how it works.

People need to be educated properly on how benefits work, how they are awarded and what the criteria for mobility cars actually is; the cars are not in fact free.

People need to be educated on the fact that there is anxiety, which every human suffers from at some point, and then there are anxiety DISORDERS which are entirely different and can be life changing and debilitating. Hence, the need and entitlement for PIP.

Brenda down the road who feels too anxious to go to Bingo on a Friday night is NOT getting PIP ❌

Mary up the lane who has such severe OCD that she cannot leave her own home for fear that she will die, IS getting PIP .✅

There’s a huge difference.

The current turning on disabled people is shameful and we are living in a country full of hate because Bob (and his Uncle) are annoyed that they are paying tax to “support all of these scroungers”.

Bob (and his Uncle), needs to hope that they never get cancer, or suffer life changing trauma or have an unfortunate accident to avoid being served a huge scrounged humble pie.

I do not suffer from anxiety but as a human, I am pleased we have a system in society to support the most vulnerable people who need it. Life can happen to anyone.

You completely misunderstood what the poster said spectacularly or did you quote the wrong person

I know that they have objective tests. That was my point. I was pointing out that some of the conditions included in the psychiatric disorders category of PIP, including Down’s Syndrome and ‘cognitive impairment due to stroke’, have objective tests because you seemed to think all the conditions PIP record as psychiatric disorders don’t.

I was pointing out the flaws in your therapies instead of PIP idea, including by pointing out it will cost more in many cases. Although, yes, I would want cash over paid for therapies instead of disability benefits. For several reasons. For example, my DSs get therapies via their EHCPs and their disability benefits are used towards other disability related expenses and one year of therapies wouldn’t be enough.

I understood this very well. And your posts as well.

Both of you are saying that therapies are too long to wait, to expensive, etc etc and cash must not stop. Therapists are hit and miss, so you can get the best ones with PIP payments but not if NHS provides this or transfer to privae.

My point was precisely this - cash should be directed to therapy. Do you know that in case NHS waitlist for CT, MRI, ultrasound and some other tests is too long, they refer to private? It should be much easier and faster to do this if money is redirected from PIP payments to treatments.
But what I'm reading is million of reasons why it shouldn't be the case and PIP must continue and therapy is not a solution.

Yes of course there are learning disabilities, severe autism, usually diagnosed very early in childhood, there are brain damages due to traumas, strokes, some other conditions. In most of such cases there should be a carer for such person.
But "modern" MH conditions like anxiety really should be reconsidered for welfare purposes.

I think the issue is that people disabled enough to get PIP cannot reliably do basic things like cook, clean or look after themselves most days to the same extent as someone with a physical disability so they theoretically need to be able to access help with these things - not just therapy. Although it will depend on the individual case. The criteria are the same for someone disabled by mental health issues and someone disabled by physical issues. Therapy isn't much use if you can't feed yourself or get yourself up and dressed to attend an appointment.

Try reading what I actually wrote rather than making stuff up. I haven’t mentioned waiting times, that therapists are hit and miss or anything about NHS therapies.

My DSs’ therapy needs (both because of their psychological diagnoses but also their physical, medical and developmental) can’t be met via the NHS. That is why the therapies they receive are funded via independent providers via their EHCPs.

If by solution you mean an improvement to the point when they can function in life without the need for disability benefits then, no, therapy isn’t a solution for DSs. The many, and there are many, professionals involved in my DSs’ care all agree that it isn’t.

The biggest problems with for e.g. vouchers for specific things like therapy or other things like taxis, aides etc is that what would most likely happen is you would find a therapist locally or a local taxi firm and they would be like oh sorry we don't accept them here. This is why its easier to just give people the money so they can actually use it to meet their specific needs. For e.g I've purchased multiple aides of amazon their is no way the government would give out amazon vouchers they would give vouchers for a specific shop that is miles from where you live and would cost triple the price of what you can get it for online

Therapy isn't much use if you can't feed yourself or get yourself up and dressed to attend an appointment.

Agree. But then cash isn't much use either, you need carer.
And we should redirect money to provision of such service.
The problem is that there are few posters here who possibly have very obvious cases of true disabilities which require support and so they refuse to see how unsustainable this entire system is and how much abuse going on.

I'm pretty sure that if tomorrow the system changes, and all those with "acquired" conditions such as anxiety, OCD and the likes are offered therapy and health visitor support, even if daily, instead of cash payments, there will be miraculous cure in very many cases. And this will weed out those who truly need support, to possibly even increase this support.

You’re missing the point of what PIP is paid for. It’s a cash benefit for the claimant to spend on supporting their condition in the way that best suits them. Carers are provided by local authorities and any PIP award is already counted for the purposes of care costs. Doubling up on that provision doesn’t help anyone. PIP should remain a cash benefit because disabled people are the ones best placed to decide the areas in which they need support as individuals.

health visitor support

PIP is for adults not young children. Many people on PIP will not have a young child in their household.

But then cash isn't much use either, you need carer.

Many people have carers (paid &/or unpaid) as well as receiving benefits. Some even use their benefits towards carers. But it isn’t just about carers. Some people use PIP towards aids that help. Cash defintely helps with that. Some people use it towards the higher food costs because of their disability but can physically feed themselves. A carer won’t solve this.

I gave up arguing with this poster a while back because it’s clear they have no idea why PIP is paid as a cash benefit or that disability related costs aren’t all related to walking sticks and wheelchairs for physical disability or therapy for MH problems. The concept that help is needed with everyday things that able bodied people take for granted, and that these things cost much more for disabled people is absolutely lost on some people.

I don't think people lie to get pip.

I think they genuinely believe themselves to be seriously, permanently, unwell. I think if you feel that way, you'll go to the doctor, a lot, you'll exhibit a lot of behaviours that will validate & perpetuate that feeling (like not leaving the house much).

If this goes on for long enough, you may get various therapies offered, may get referred on to clinics or specialists. Over time you'll build a massive bank of medical records relating to all this.

But this is primarily self reported. There's no blood test, your anxiety doesn't show up on a scan or swab.

What i struggle with is that it doesn't appear possible to separate how susceptible some people are to mental health issues, from overall lack of resilience etc. Its all so subjective. One person will say they can't manage x or y, a different person will soldier on. How do we help people learn to cope better?

OK then, l give up. My point was that PIP opened up the whole scope of MH conditions to disability benefit claims unlike DLA which categorised and only supported a very few, and with narrow criteria. I think l’ve engaged pretty well and stuck to the facts throughout this discussion and based what I’ve said on lived experience, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time and this thread is now descending into batshit theory so I’m bowing out.

The reality is for a lot of people, what pip does is enable people to afford to stop work. There are actually stats on this, quite a proportion of people are in work when first applying for it and then cease work when they receive it. People can beat around the bush as to what people use it for and whether its reasonable, but the fact remains for many people its the gateway benefit that enables them to stop work - if you can manage to get pip & lcwra, you:

• are exempt from benefit cap
• don't have to seek work
• could get housing element, child elements etc on top

People can and do live reasonably comfortably on it (my cousin is one).

It’s obviously going to be curtailed in the near future because it’s totally unaffordable. Like PP I wonder how many become ‘cured’ when the cash handouts dry up.

Many disabled people struggle to work because they have to. Are you really saying that if PIP enables them to stop the stress caused by having to work, you would deny them that ?

This is not very smart thinking.
You can’t qualify for any PIP until you’ve had the condition for at least 6 months and the prognosis is it will last at least another year.

The long term disabling health condition is forcing them to give up work.
PIP ends up replacing some of the income lost.

PIP isn’t enabling people to stop work. They’d have to stop work anyway.

And no one is going to stop work for up to £700/mo. My neighbour would have certainly preferred to stay working in her £10k/mo job to having to stop work and collect £525/mo in PIP. That’s all they get, it’s all on her DH now to support the family. Their house is for sale, probably can’t pay the mortgage.

Thinking PIP causes people to stop working is the same thinking that linked Autism diagnosis around the age of 2 with the MMR jabs at 18 and 20mos of age. Just because one often comes after the other, it doesn’t mean there is any link whatsoever between the two events.

PIP wasn’t even meant to be like that, it was meant to be an in work benefit to compensate for the extra costs of being disabled so the same wage would give the same lifestyle as an abled person.

The problem is that the eligibility criteria have been tightened repeatedly to the point that, it’s now very rarely awarded to anyone who can physically stay in work. Currently, only the most needy get PIP. You’ve heard that before right?

Every time the government reform disability payments, saying the most needy, the most vulnerable means that tens of thousands of disabled people who are in need and are vulnerable suddenly fall outside the eligibility criteria and get no financial help.

Low rate pip is like £30 a month the absolute high rate for severe disability is £800 a month really living the life of luxury 🤣

Agree. I’m looking forward to a slew of disabled PIP claimants suddenly being cured. Particularly interested in seeing how claimants grow back missing limbs, are miraculously suddenly cancer free, not to mention regaining control of bowels and bladder and best of all, reversing congenital disability/birth defects 🙄

Totally agree.

Do you think my organs will start working again from my rare progressive congenital disorder and my bipolar and bpd will be cured and my brain damage undone 🤞🤞 🤣🤣

You were probably on the 1832 Royal Commission into the Operation of Poor Laws in a past life.

According to some that’s exactly what you should expect and as soon as it happens get your lazy arse back to work - despite the fact that PIP isn’t an out of work benefit and doesn’t assess the ability to work.🤣

Exactly i still do work admittedly only part time but up until a few years ago I was working full time certain people will not accept that there are people on pip who do work

And the thread is almost full now we can get back to our lives. Until someone starts another benefits bashing thread in 20 minutes

That's all folks goodnight xx