PIP for Anxiety

[IntelligenceIsFree]

AIBU to clear things up?

The current nasty rhetoric around disabled people at the moment is astounding. Society needs to be reminded that we are ALL one illness or accident away from disability.

Everyone knows someone who is gaming the system, yet the PIP fraud rate is extremely low. The public demonising, does not match the reality.

The hot topic is “anxiety” and how people with “anxiety” are gaming the system, getting “free” cars and robbing tax payers; this is being constantly fed through media, news articles and so on.

This is simply not true. The people spouting this nonsense clearly have no idea how PIP works. Nobody gets PIP without strong medical evidence. Nobody.

Before anyone posts “my neighbour got PIP just by telling lies”. No, they did not. That’s not how it works.

People need to be educated properly on how benefits work, how they are awarded and what the criteria for mobility cars actually is; the cars are not in fact free.

People need to be educated on the fact that there is anxiety, which every human suffers from at some point, and then there are anxiety DISORDERS which are entirely different and can be life changing and debilitating. Hence, the need and entitlement for PIP.

Brenda down the road who feels too anxious to go to Bingo on a Friday night is NOT getting PIP ❌

Mary up the lane who has such severe OCD that she cannot leave her own home for fear that she will die, IS getting PIP .✅

There’s a huge difference.

The current turning on disabled people is shameful and we are living in a country full of hate because Bob (and his Uncle) are annoyed that they are paying tax to “support all of these scroungers”.

Bob (and his Uncle), needs to hope that they never get cancer, or suffer life changing trauma or have an unfortunate accident to avoid being served a huge scrounged humble pie.

I do not suffer from anxiety but as a human, I am pleased we have a system in society to support the most vulnerable people who need it. Life can happen to anyone.

Only 39-40% of new PIP claims are psychiatric and only half of those are successful so “the whole ship sinks” might be a tad over dramatic.

39-40% ?

PIP fraud over all is less than 1% and we have a PIP assessor saying “the chances of sucessful award with zero is evidence is slim, but not impossible.”

Many, many people have no faith in the validity of the govt reported PIP fraud level or the method used to investigate and report.

Ah you mean some like to invent figures when data isn’t what they want it to be.

so it would be much better then to pay directly for private therapy. No cash payments to the patient. And if no improvement after 6-12 months then accept that it can't be helped. But no PIP. Would you agree?

You've completely misunderstood what I'm saying - I don't think anything of the sort. What I'm saying is, rightly or wrongly, these things seem to be routinely used to deny points to people who are trying to claim for invisible conditions if you read posts on disability forums (I'm disabled myself and in receipt of benefits).

Obviously it depends what conditions you're trying to claim for and what you're saying you can't do but single mothers, for example, often seem to be told they must be able to do all the relevant activities as they're caring for their kids adequately and so must therefore be able to do these things for themselves (not sure that's always true but it does seem to be a tactic used to deny awarding). Of course adult kids don't count as they're not dependent unless disabled themselves and of course there will be exceptions.

Similarly, a small number of people manage to find jobs that suit their disabilities but one of the reasons so few people who get PIP work is because working is routinely used to tell people they can't be disabled enough to meet the bar if they're managing to do it for more than a few hours a week.

I know, right? 40% of PIP claims for conditions which can't be confirmed by any objective tests. And then it's PIP for agoraphobia. And cleaner and gardener for GAD.

Many MH conditions have bucket loads of very strong evidence and paperwork to back it up, as much if not more than some physical conditions.

"Did you ask for MR and what was their excuse ?"

They said that because he was sometimes awake at night in his enclosed safe space padded bed without me being right next to him it was evidence of not always needing to be closely supervised. At MR I pointed out how ridiculous this reason was and he was awarded HRM.

Not really. Many private therapists can be hit or miss, they’re not regulated as much or part of an over all MDT team. You also can’t do therapy all the time and need breaks in between. Therapy won’t cure all conditions but can be part of an ongoing package to help you manage conditions better. There are all sorts of things you need PIP for, not just therapy.

That’s because the only cases definitively known of, are those that have been investigated and found out. And as pps have said, investigation (time and workforce) is very expensive, so very little actually happens.

Every time such a post appears on here, more than one MNer will almost always say they know someone who is definitely, blithely, gaming the system and openly admitting, or even boasting about it.

PIP doesn’t set out to objectively test for disability itself . It sets out to assess the effects of the condition as reported by the claimant, not the presence of the condition itself. They are two different issues. And you do not need a confirmed diagnosis for PIP - the Equality Act 2010 provides the definition of disability and legally it doesn’t require a definitive diagnosis.

We can all make up- I have a friend!

The conditions PIP classify as psychiatric disorders are varied. It is far more than anxiety and depression. It also includes some diagnoses that are not mental health conditions. Many of them do have objective tests. For example, it includes dementia, ‘cognitive impairment due to stroke’, Down’s Syndrome, learning disability, and Rett syndrome.

Not to mention that it isn’t the diagnosis that is important for PIP.

As for only funding therapy directly, that wouldn’t work. Therapy isn’t the only disability related expense. Therapy costs can be more than some receive in PIP, so it wouldn’t save money in all cases, and that’s before you looked at the cost of administering such a system.

Which makes it even more odd that many posters are claiming that fraud is much higher, based on nothing more than their own observations or that of friends/family of known PIP claimants and judging them to be fraudulent, despite having no medical training, no knowledge of the effects of the condition and not the slightest idea of the content of the claim or the outcome of any assessment.

And when they’re challenged the usual response is that the claimant has told them outright that they’re committing fraud, that they’ve seen them going about their life and there’s no evidence of disability (what would that look like in the case of an invisible disabling condition), or that somehow getting gel nails or other beauty treatments means they’re not disabled.

The reasons disability benefit claims have increased since the change from DLA to PIP are varied. One reason is advances in medicine mean that we’re getting better at recognition and diagnosis. But by far the biggest factor is that on its introduction to replace DLA in 2013 PIP opened up disability benefit claims for the first time ever to those with mental health conditions. So more people were able to claim. It doesn’t mean those claims are fraudulent at all, just that they are admissible for disability benefits where they weren’t previously, so of course the disability benefits bill is going to rise. You only have to look at the explosion in the diagnosis of spectrum disabilities to recognise that. It doesn’t make it fraud.

Private psychiatrist or psychologist led therapy would cost more per week than claimants get in a month.

Glad to hear it. There is also the 50% rule - if the effects of a disabling condition are present for 50% or more of the time then benefit is awarded at the appropriate rate.

Yep. And as has been highlighted several times during the discussion, agoraphobia usually presents as a symptom of multi faceted complex mental health issues. It’s rarely a stand alone condition.

Sorry @Laurmolonlabe - quoted you by accident! Meant to quote @Queenhecate

I'll repost in response to the post I meant to quote

You've completely misunderstood what I'm saying - I don't think anything of the sort. What I'm saying is, rightly or wrongly, these things seem to be routinely used to deny points to people who are trying to claim for invisible conditions if you read posts on disability forums (I'm disabled myself and in receipt of benefits).

Obviously it depends what conditions you're trying to claim for and what you're saying you can't do but single mothers, for example, often seem to be told they must be able to do all the relevant activities as they're caring for their kids adequately and so must therefore be able to do these things for themselves (not sure that's always true but it does seem to be a tactic used to deny awarding).
Of course adult kids don't count as they're not dependent unless disabled themselves and of course there will be exceptions.

Similarly, a small number of people manage to find jobs that suit their disabilities but one of the reasons so few people who get PIP work is because working is routinely used to tell people they can't be disabled enough to meet the bar if they're managing to do it for more than a few hours a week.

GAD generally doesn’t qualify for PIP because it’s mainly treated via GP care with simple meds. The bar for a PIP mental health claim is very high. The level of disability has to be severe and usually involves secondary care, consultant led mental health teams. Going to your GP and telling hem you want pills because you’re anxious/depressed and then banging in a claim on that basis doesn’t cut it for PIP.

But l’m confident that someone will be along in a minute to tell me that despite over twenty years experience in disability support l’m wrong, because Sharon who lives next door claims for mental health and she gets her nails done every week, so she must be faking it.

It's not. Your claim would likely be denied the first time, and you'd need to appeal it. You might be called for an in depth interview, or they might want to interview you in person at an office. Here they are watching you closely. They're watching your behaviour, how you walk, how you speak, how you get up and down from a chair etc. They're literally judging you. Then you have to have reviews every few years. More forms, more evidence, more interviews. Then you have to deal with the general distrust and hatred from the media and the public, designed to make you feel shame and guilt for having a disability. It would takes someone with the brassiest of brass necks to fake it

I know. That is why I said “Therapy costs can be more than some receive in PIP“.

Absolutely spot on. I supported a lady who was turned down flat for a claim on MH grounds despite having psychologist input, hospitalisation for crises and admissions to secure units after suicide attempts/experiencing overwhelming symptoms.

The assessor completely dismissed everything she said on the grounds that she lived with her mum and occasionally helped out with housework on her good days, had actually attended the assessment (accompanied and with a great deal of preparation and OCD level checking and rechecking of detail) and had managed to get through the interview without breaking down into a quivering mess. Thankfully the appeal tribunal felt differently and she went from zero award to high rate care and standard mobility