PIP for Anxiety

[IntelligenceIsFree]

AIBU to clear things up?

The current nasty rhetoric around disabled people at the moment is astounding. Society needs to be reminded that we are ALL one illness or accident away from disability.

Everyone knows someone who is gaming the system, yet the PIP fraud rate is extremely low. The public demonising, does not match the reality.

The hot topic is “anxiety” and how people with “anxiety” are gaming the system, getting “free” cars and robbing tax payers; this is being constantly fed through media, news articles and so on.

This is simply not true. The people spouting this nonsense clearly have no idea how PIP works. Nobody gets PIP without strong medical evidence. Nobody.

Before anyone posts “my neighbour got PIP just by telling lies”. No, they did not. That’s not how it works.

People need to be educated properly on how benefits work, how they are awarded and what the criteria for mobility cars actually is; the cars are not in fact free.

People need to be educated on the fact that there is anxiety, which every human suffers from at some point, and then there are anxiety DISORDERS which are entirely different and can be life changing and debilitating. Hence, the need and entitlement for PIP.

Brenda down the road who feels too anxious to go to Bingo on a Friday night is NOT getting PIP ❌

Mary up the lane who has such severe OCD that she cannot leave her own home for fear that she will die, IS getting PIP .✅

There’s a huge difference.

The current turning on disabled people is shameful and we are living in a country full of hate because Bob (and his Uncle) are annoyed that they are paying tax to “support all of these scroungers”.

Bob (and his Uncle), needs to hope that they never get cancer, or suffer life changing trauma or have an unfortunate accident to avoid being served a huge scrounged humble pie.

I do not suffer from anxiety but as a human, I am pleased we have a system in society to support the most vulnerable people who need it. Life can happen to anyone.

Agree. In general the claimants’ medical evidence is a straightforward description of their condition and functional ability. It doesn’t detail how the claimant may be affected in any of the descriptors used for PIP. Sometimes the effects are clear and unequivocal on assessment, sometimes not so much. So most decisions end up being a mix of the interpretation of the medical evidence supplied and the examination of the claimant to ensure that the impact they report is consistent with what would be expected as reasonable for the condition.

So in reality all claims are based to some degree on the balance of probability that the claimant is telling the truth. Where medical evidence is minimal or not present that determination is not as clear cut and has to be made on empirical medical data and the assessors’ experience - with widely varying outcomes. The present, deeply flawed system within which they work means that they can’t possibly get it right 100% of the time, which in turn, is why we need a hugely expensive appeals system as a safety net.

The problem with Balance of probilities is its around negating not supporting in f2f assessments. So in cases with 0 evidence, absolutely, as i said up thread, its more likely they wont get and award, but there are exceptions, and times when people do get an award. I write very specific cases, and for me, the ones without evidence are generally getting it on the balance of probabilties, as im writing mostly no evidence cancer cases where i have spoken to a relative who has confirmed a treatment plan and side effects from the treatment in a quick 5 minute call, or i write for people who have passed away so evidence is almost impossible. But in the majority of cases, balance of probabilities is going to be no evidence to support reported restriction, no evidence of input, no evidence of meds, no award. Again though, there will be exceptions when its all very consistent, and the assessor awards.

And just to reiterate, an assessor is writing a recommendation, they arent making a decision. That goes to the DWP decision makers, who are non-HCPs, and they can decide to go against what a HCP assessor has recommended.

I also fully agree a safety net needs to be in place, not least because obtaining medical evidence takes so long, it often hasnt arrived by the time an assessment is taking place. Being able to have a claim that was refused re-looked at once that evidence is available is in the best interest of claimants. Once a claimant has had a first assessment and has a better understanding of the system also means they have a better idea of what evidence to send with a MR, and they can advocate for themselves better than maybe they did the first time around too.

I once worked with a man who had anxiety and likely other MH issues and he was a nervous wreck, couldn’t cope with anything, got flustered and made dangerous mistakes and once spilt boiling hot coffee over me because he was trembling while passing it to me.
When he felt his anxiety got too much especially if he faced criticism or felt any kind of negative reaction real or perceived he would take it all as a personal attack and turn hostile or lash out.
I ended up leaving that job because of his unpredictable anxiety but of course he was fine out shopping on his own or he might be seen at the cinema or somewhere but that doesn’t mean he was fine all the time.
I would absolutely rather he stayed at home and got pip or dla.
It is all well and good saying people with anxiety should be in work but what about the people who have to work with them? and then doesn’t it become discrimination if they lose their job due to disability?

How can you have a no evidence cancer case?

I am under the hospital for 4 minor conditions(I don’t need PIP it’s my dd who gets it) and every time I attend anything I get an appointment letter and a follow up letter which pings to my app as I drive home and are super easy to print off.

Either of these would be evidence of cancer.

Well, that would possibly equal not one worker in the whole country if we could all say we’re anxious at work but nowhere else!

Because the claimant doesnt send it. Its not that it doesnt exist, its that i dont have access to it. They report active treatments so i cannot send for assessment, paper based has to be attempted first, and then they only list a GP as a medical contact and they have contact number for a relative on their claim. I wait the 20 working days for GP report which doesnt come back, as with most cases. My only option then is to aproach the relative and get confirmation of treatments, and write based on that. There are exceptions as with everything when active treatment goes to an assessment. but if they are only reporting cancer, no other conditions, and all their symptoms are consistent, im writing a recommended enh/enh award report with 0 available evidence.

But surely can you can contact them and ask them to send an appointment or diagnosis letter which they could instantly send you from their app.

Also you’re allowed to get extensions so why aren’t you telling applicants to extend whilst waiting for the GP report?

We cannot ask a claimant to submit further evidence, we cannot advise them what to send at all. If during a call they say they are submitting further evidence, and its not on the system within the 20 days of the case being "active" we cant wait for it to arrive, we have to use what we have.

We, as assessors, not DWP staff, cannot advise claimants of anything.

If you doubt credibility you very much can ask for the information you need. Any GP receptionist can print off a specific letter without delay.

Sure - first post there is asking for advice how to fill in PIP documents

https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1E2S2RFEcf/?mibextid=wwXIfr

No, we cannot ask for anything, advising a claimant how to be more sucessful is outside of our role. We cannot do that. Do i want to? Daily. Every single day i want to tell a parent to send the EHCP, but im not allowed to. We have to use what we have at the point an report has to be written.

I can ask for contact number, say i call and they say they have a cancer specialist nurse by the name of xyz, i can ask what hospital and if they have a number, or a home care provider, or school contact, or a care coordinator for MH etc. But i cannot advise, or ask teh claimant directly or a relative/appointee to submit further evidence.

This takes me to my own Facebook page?

You can't link to posts in private / closed groups

Also it’s spelt out very clearly that you need to leave enough time incase assessors need to ask for more info and contact your GP which you tick the box giving permission for. So they clearly can say sorry in need more however long it takes.

Yes, but GPs dont work to the time line. We have 20 days to get the information, i call a GP to chase it on day 15 and they said 6-8 weeks turn around time, then its not coming iin time. This is nothing to do with claimants consenting, or extending, this is the DWP stating a report needs to be written 20 working days after being allocated to an assessor for a paper based report.

What?

Oh sorry I didn’t know that.
but there is absolutely a group that I know of

Applicant’s problem not yours, as is spelt out.

Plus there is zero motivation to try your best to get better from conditions, quite the opposite.

Basically yeah. I dont make the rules, i just write reports to the best of my ability within guidance from other people.

And i do so as a registered HCP, who, has to do this job as my own phsyical health is such i had to leave a job i loved, i cannot walk for more than a few minutes myself, my condition is degenerative, i will never have the ability to go back to clinical roles. But as i said somehwere in this thread, i do a very particular type of assessment, i have come to love my job as im awarding most reports i write. Its a version of pip the vast majority of people, hopefully, never have to be a part of, as the level of need is so high in 95% of my claims.

The system is flawed, completely, and people in need sometimes dont get it, and people who maybe dont can play the system to their advantage.

But i do my job the absolute best i can within the criteria given to us. And i do my best for every claimant i write a report for.

Going g by some of the replies on this thread, is the reason I dont tell anyone I get pip.

Same here, I'm very wary about who I share it with.

And your evidence for that is ……….?