English people are second class citizens

[NotAnotherScarf]

Aibu To be annoyed about so many Facebook posts about celebrating st George's day being racist. No one post this for st Patrick's day, st Andrew's or st David's.... Hogmanay and burns night have parties

By celebrating being English, passing democracy to the world, Shakespeare, Agatha Christie, TV, the jet engine, the internet... railways, the industrial revolution, beer, the Beatles... All should be celebrated.

Yes we did some shite things...but white slavery (20+ million), the Holocaust, programs in Eastern Europe. King Leopold of Belgium hunting African people. The depopulation of parts of the USSR, the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia.....all things that in the last 125 years England has nothing to do with...yet people like to think that we who celebrate our Englishness are scum.

I have just checked on FB on all the local villages pages …not one reference to St George’s Day !! So don’t worry OP you can sleep well tonight,you are not missing any parties.

Do you think it's impossible for Ireland to have been both?

Of course it's impossible - they can't have been ruled by Westminster but also in their own right colonise other countries by order of a government that didn't exist.

Fs now I want fish and chips

Who gives a shit who invented what. It's all tribalistic nonsense

It's a Thursday, I have work tomorrow so I wasn't going to any parties.

Maybe you've confused "working class" with "unemployed people."

My own (Irish) ancestors fought in the British army and settled on land that was expropriated from the indigenous population. Some comments made in their memoirs make me wonder whether they were involved in atrocities.

Irish people fought in the army, served as colonial administrators and settled on the land and farmed it. This wasn't just true in the Empire but in the US too.

None of this nullifies the fact that Ireland was colonised by the British, though you may notice that even now independence for the entire island isn't unanimously accepted by its population.

Not a wind up. Just facts that need to be faced

I think you might want to do some reading about NI, partition and the history of the Ulster plantations. I mean, in case you think that this is some kind of ‘gotcha’.

So basically you want other people to celebrate english ? Why can’t you celebrate yourself ? It’s not news that most of the world already find the English arrogant already , you expect others to celebrate St George’s flag ?

Yes I know all that. What's your point?

That is quite a stretch, I'm afraid. The U.S. and India became democracies in spite of the British, not because of them.

Just facts that need to be faced

One anecdote about your family doesn't make Ireland a colonial power.

It's like saying Britain was on the side of the Nazis because some English men joined the German army.

Edgar Hooley. In fairness he just improved on the method of road construction pioneered by John McAdam. Who was Scottish.

How about the didgeridoo - there's a fine English invention to swell the heart.

That's right! The original name for tarmac was TarMacAdam after its Scottish inventor. Shame we've all forgotten how to use it!

I’m even older than you and we didn’t do any of those things in school and why has no-one mentioned the dragon?

You're refusing to engage with what I said, which was far more than one anecdote, and which only served to illustrate my point. You'll have to do better than that. I don't imagine all that much is taught about colonisation in UK or Irish schools though that's just a belief I may be wrong about.

I haven't seen one single post like that.

Sounds like you're just mixing in the wrong circles.

Who? You haven't quoted anyone.

You're refusing to engage with what I said, which was far more than one anecdote, and which only served to illustrate my point

Refusing to engage? I didn't know we had agreed on debate structure but if you want ... you gave a family anecdote and a sweeping statement.

What era are you talking about? Irish people were British subjects from 1800 so any of your family that joined the British army between then and 1921 did so as British citizens. Prior to that Irish people were under British rule as far back as 1169, and certainly by the time the British were going to America, Africa, India and Australia.

Again, Ireland, as a state, was not a coloniser.

Come off it, we have plenty of good things to celebrate. Shakespeare and his birthday, for one.

Our middle class town holds a St George's Day Parade every year.

Absolutely, Australia was a fully-fledged flourishing democracy with a developed legal system and highest per capita income when Captain Cook landed.

Saving Europe from dictators?

Half of Europe was "owned" by Stalin after the war.

The native population was treated as subhuman by the colonisers.

I work alongside a white English woman. I'm more senior to her, but I'm black British. When it's quiet, she enjoys droning on about what's wrong with this country. Her greatest hits are illegal immigrants, Kier Starmer, legal immigrants, Labour, pensions. One day, I found myself with this colleague and a (white British) female client. Client was in tears and felt hopeless, especially as the situation was affecting her child. I listened, gave her a hug, and I felt compelled to support her as best I could. My colleague said nothing, and did nothing. After this client had left, she decided to rant about people 'like her' (the client) not being responsible (this was not a reckless situation at all, please believe me!), and maybe I was doing too much to support her (aka, doing my job). I stood up, ranted to her manager, and I don't know what came of that.

Here, I guess we have a class situation at play. This colleague of mine is bitter towards 'foreignness' attacking the values of this country, yet she can't find the heart to empathise with one of her English brethren. I won't go into detail, but classism is the issue here. My white colleague doesn't give a toss about the white people who are struggling in this country, but she'll stand side-by-side with them to be racist. That's all I can see. I definitely can't see how all this nationalism benefits any of the poorest white people in this country. Immigration issues are valid issues, but they aren't the only issue. Not even close.

And the Irish should be thanking the British for reducing our BMI and tackling over population