AIBU to consider legal action after dismissal for long-term sickness?

[KittyCoo]

I’ve been dismissed from my job today due to long term sickness since August last year. I have crohns, ASD, and very severe OCD. I have intrusive thoughts and last summer I declared these to my boss who completely misunderstood me and was worried I’d act on these thoughts shock I told her they caused me immense distress.

Last month, I was confident I’d be able to return to work as I’m finally having CBT and on the right medication, now on an SSRI combined with an anti psychotic. My boss was supporting my return. But then a week later she decided to place me on medical suspension without any prior warning because occ health deemed me unfit to work due to my OCD still taking up a lot of my day. I then fed this back to my line manager saying I’ll beat this decision as in prove occ health wrong and that I am indeed fit for work. She arranged a meeting with me to discuss suspension and she knew my union rep was on annual leave but decided to go ahead with it anyway!!!

They dismissed me due to long term sickness and not taking into account what’s working well with my mental health!! I’m looking at finding a solicitor as I believe this is unfair dismissal due to my disabilities under the Equality Act 2010. I’ve contacted a few and had a few quotes back.

AIBU by wanting to take legal action and sue them because my OCD is deliberating and because of my ASD I have different communication styles that they’ve completely misunderstood. Do you think this is unfair dismissal ?

im so traumatised by it all and im worried ill be made homeless and have my property repossessed as I’ll have no money and won’t be able to find a future job

We can’t train people for every eventuality. Unless you specialise in OCD and have the relevant psychiatric or psychology qualifications, have a full diagnosis of the individuals condition then you couldn’t possibly dismiss this revelation. The manager will hear “knife” and “ intent to use it” and will do what is needed to prevent a potential injury.
My DS has suffered with poor mental health recently ( totally expected after some major family events) but to all of us around him he seemed fine. Until he rang me and said he “ didn’t want to be here”. He wasn’t referring to his location. Since he’s 90 miles away at uni my first response was not to brush it off and carry on with the house work. I contacted Wellbeing at uni and set in motion the response needed. Within an hour they had contacted him and talked to him. I had had a long chat with him and asked him to tell his flatmates, who are very longstanding friends, so that they would keep an eye on him. He is now in a much better place and is aware of the support available from friends , family and professionals.

For the OP to disclose her intrusive thoughts to a work colleague does suggest that she was reaching out for help. The only action that member of staff should have taken is to take the OP out of the situation and seek help. Spending 3 hours on the internet depp diving into OCD and whether the OP is likely to act on her intrusive thoughts is inappropriate and frankly dangerous.

We have to take what people say at face value because if we don’t we may regret it. Very few of us are qualified to do otherwise. Our primary objective is to safeguard ourselves and those around us who could be at risk.

I’m sure that there are a lot of people who wish that parents, teachers and health care workers had taken the actions and behaviour of those who have acted on their intrusive thoughts more seriously.

Maybe every person who jokes they could strangle their colleague today should be escorted off their work premises too...I mean all that matters is the words not the context or anything!

@Crwysmam that must have been such a difficult phone call to have, glad to hear your son had that good support around him and is doing better

I stupidly told a place where I worked (as a temp) that I had mental health issues. I thought they’d understand as it was NHS admin. Next thing my contract ended.

I have ADHD which youd think isnt that weird or wonderful these days but I've been treated like shit whenever I've mentioned it so I don't bother now.

Her work are not there to be her therapists. Yes they have a duty of care and some can pinpoint counselling in or out of work if it’s offered, but if she is off for a long time, nothing appears to be being done with her mental health issues and then there’s the knife comment, then yes it probably would be escalated. HR afaik only deal with getting doctors reports and other documents relating to her returning from work/being off sick, from a GP and maybe another consultant in this case. Or maybe counsellors reports could be shared but unsure re GDPR confidentiality issues.

Unless it affects your job I would not mention it. Sorry you’ve been treated badly though. Workplace’s still don't understand mental health issues.

So much for society trying to destigmatise mental health issues and get people to open up...it's always pointless or worse-actually detrimental to mental health. Of course when something tragic happens people will always say "why didn't they confide in someone?"

And in this case the tragic event could be the OP stabs a colleague.

And the Op did confide in her boss

and political correctness can go jump if y safety or that of my team is compromised. And someone expressing this threat - compromises safety. I would want them out.

Anyway the Op is out. She’s very sketchy on what has actually been stipulated in the dismissal letter. Nothing will come of any legal nonsense

You could not be more ill-informed if you actively tried.

She’s based that on the very limited information supplied by op?
Why do you know better?

can’t say i give a fig

Someone suggest they want to harm me or my team…. I’m on to HR and saying I don’t want this person on my team anymore.

Because I know the difference between OCD intrusions and wanting to harm someone.

So what would you do with this information if a team member came to you expressing thought about harming colleagues with a knife?

Because I know the difference between OCD intrusions and wanting to harm someone.

But a manager who has no training or qualifications in the subject doesn't.

This, especially with several highly publicised incidents of people with mh difficulties and the significant attacks and killings of people with knives?
how can you expect people with no mh training to take on the level of responsibility to say “nothing will happen!”
are these doctors happy to make written statements to say “I in my clinical opinion guarantee that X will never ever harm anyone”

If I’ve read this correctly OP, you’re saying that OH said you were not fit to return to work due to ‘OCD taking up a lot of your day’. In your assessment, what have you said that’s caused them to come to that conclusion? If that’s true, then genuinely you don’t sound well enough to return to work. You’ve also said you want to return on part time hours which indicates you too might not be sure you’re well enough?

It sounds as though your employer has been very understanding so far. They’ve kept your role for 7 months and have been supportive. If it’s a big company they’ll have taken advice and will absolutely know the law. They can only go by what Occupational Health is telling them. From what I can see, the only thing they should have done was let you have a union rep at the meeting.

Can someone who is making these claims that people with OCD are incapable of harming anyone point to the evidence which states that nobody with OCD has ever committed a violent crime? No? Didn’t think so.

As for the so called psychiatrist with a knife, he sounds more like a dangerous fettishist who gets a kick out of having a knife held to his throat. Creepy fucker.

Plenty of people who have certain thoughts don’t actually carry them out. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t take those thoughts seriously, to not do so is dangerous. Just because there is so called evidence that on the whole people who have harmful thoughts don’t commit harm doesn’t mean it never happens or that it’s impossible. Neither does it mean that those who express concern for their own safety should be tolerant because it has a diagnosis.

Plenty of people have suicidal thoughts for instance and never go through with completing the actual act. Should we ignore them? Absolutely not. And neither would anyone ever advocate doing so.

In the same way stating that someone having thoughts of harming others with a knife should just be ignored because there’s some evidence which suggests that they’re not going to carry it out is completely unreasonable. Just because there is evidence that on the whole people don’t carry out harmful thoughts, there is 0 evidence that this has never happened. As soon as someone expresses a desire to harm others this needs to be taken seriously. A diagnosis does not negate that.

@bigboykitty

Waiting for what you would say / do if a member of your team (who you knew had OCD) expressed violent thoughts involving a knife to other team members?

They’re less likely to harm someone than person sat next to then without OCD. The fact they have vocalised the thoughts is by the by.

From: adaa.org/learn-from-us/from-the-experts/blog-posts/consumer/harm-ocd-vs-being-dangerous

It is important to note that Harm OCD does not indicate a risk of carrying out actual physical harm. While the thoughts associated with Harm OCD can be disturbing and distressing, they usually remain within the realm of ego-dystonic thoughts -- meaning they are contrary to one's own values, beliefs, and sense of self. These intrusive thoughts should not be interpreted as true reflections of someone's internal state or intentions. It is up to qualified mental health professionals to assess potential risks for actual physical harm or suicidal ideation in order to provide appropriate intervention and care.

People who are truly at risk of harm to others typically find pleasure in the thoughts and these thoughts are ego-syntonic, meaning the thoughts align with the individual’s sense of self. Individuals who feel unmanageable anger and find it difficult to resist acting on aggressive impulses, people who have a history of having acted out violently or sexually either while sober or under the influence of a substance, people who hear voices, see or hear things that others don’t or feel people are out to get them are all situations in which one should be concerned

So someone who wanted to or was likely to act on these thoughts would NOT be diagnosed with OCD. And anyone who has been assesed by a qualified medical professional and diagnosed with OCD is not a risk.

Where does it say They’re less likely to harm someone than person sat next to then without OCD

it does say These intrusive thoughts should not be interpreted as true reflections of someone's internal state or intentions. It is up to qualified mental health professionals to assess potential risks for actual physical harm or suicidal ideation in order to provide appropriate intervention and care.

@PhoebeBuffay1234
You actually cannot say patients with OCD are incapable of harming someone. Many people with ocd have other mental health problems, for instance- the co-existent pathology could potentially cause risky behaviour. Or they could behave entirely out of character (possibly on a single occasion) under the influence of drink and/or illicit substances.

I suspect that any reputable psychiatrist or psychologist would say the same- very low risk, perhaps, but not zero risk. Zero risk does not exist, for anyone.

in any case, OP’s manager, when told this information- and as a lay person- had no choice but to act and escalate it appropriately. Even if you were her manager and ‘knew” she was not a risk, I’m sure presented with an employee struggling with mental health problems and admitting to intrusive thoughts of harming others (however unlikely you thought it would be that they would act in them), you would not ignore it and hope it all worked out, surely? I’d have thought you’d have to escalate that.

we also don’t know that this (the employer being aware of her thoughts re harming others) is the reason for her dismissal. It would seem this was made on the back of an occupational health report commissioned after 8 months + absence. A report which stated that the professional assessment of the OH specialist was that she was currently unfit for work and unlikely to be so for the foreseeable future. I would be surprised if the OH doctor had not sought information from OP’s psychiatrist- and quite possibly sought their opinion on her ability to return to work/likely timescales- as part of their assessment (they usually do- as a specialist I am often asked for information and/or opinion by occupational health). I can’t say whether OH are right, or not, but OP’s manager is hardly in a position to override the assessment and let her come back to work against advice. Again, whether or not all the correct procedures have been followed, I can’t comment on and op should seek legal advice.

Usually remain

Not always

Also her manager wasn't remotely able to decide whether there were other co.morbid conditions at play alongside the OCD. What if OP had OCD and was having a psychotic episode with undiagnosed schizophrenia alongside?

The only safe thing to do is escalate for MH help as manager did

Maybe every person who jokes they could strangle their colleague today should be escorted off their work premises too

I've worked in some workplaces that have inappropriate humour but joking about strangling colleagues is not normal and should always result in disciplinary action.

Oh, FGS, why can’t people read? I have previously said those with OCD and no other diagnosed conditions are less likely to harm someone than the person sat next to them who hasn’t voiced intrusive thoughts to their manager. The fact they have told someone about the intrusive thoughts is irrelevant if they’re diagnosed with OCD.

I have also noted previously that it it likely to be the compulsions, anxiety and distress that are causing her to not be able to do her job. Though obviously we don’t know exactly as it hasn’t been disclosed by OP what Occ Health actually said.

I don’t know the exact figures but it is negligible that someone with OCD will also have a personality disorder that makes them also capable of wanting to harm someone. That’s because OCD is ego dystonic and personality disorders, like sociopathy for example, are ego syntonic, as has been explained previously.