AIBU to consider legal action after dismissal for long-term sickness?

[KittyCoo]

I’ve been dismissed from my job today due to long term sickness since August last year. I have crohns, ASD, and very severe OCD. I have intrusive thoughts and last summer I declared these to my boss who completely misunderstood me and was worried I’d act on these thoughts shock I told her they caused me immense distress.

Last month, I was confident I’d be able to return to work as I’m finally having CBT and on the right medication, now on an SSRI combined with an anti psychotic. My boss was supporting my return. But then a week later she decided to place me on medical suspension without any prior warning because occ health deemed me unfit to work due to my OCD still taking up a lot of my day. I then fed this back to my line manager saying I’ll beat this decision as in prove occ health wrong and that I am indeed fit for work. She arranged a meeting with me to discuss suspension and she knew my union rep was on annual leave but decided to go ahead with it anyway!!!

They dismissed me due to long term sickness and not taking into account what’s working well with my mental health!! I’m looking at finding a solicitor as I believe this is unfair dismissal due to my disabilities under the Equality Act 2010. I’ve contacted a few and had a few quotes back.

AIBU by wanting to take legal action and sue them because my OCD is deliberating and because of my ASD I have different communication styles that they’ve completely misunderstood. Do you think this is unfair dismissal ?

im so traumatised by it all and im worried ill be made homeless and have my property repossessed as I’ll have no money and won’t be able to find a future job

The OP said occupational health said not fit for work and she herself said she wouldn’t be anytime in the future. So whether or not work would allow or want a phased return is irrelevant. As it stands, she is not fit for any work phased or otherwise. This is most likely why she was let go.

The OPs opening question was whether she should take legal action for being dismissed as a result of a chronic condition that doesn’t look like improving soon.
It’s totally irrelevant to the question, what the condition is because it could be anything from cancer to having both legs amputated, if it prevents you from working then legally, through the correct process her employer can dismiss her.
They would need to have evidence that the OP is not going back to work soon. As long as the evidence is provided by the correct agency then they can proceed.
For some reason PPs are banging on about OCD which may be only part of her problem. There is insufficient evidence to comment on this.
Safeguarding includes all sorts of possibilities, and is not necessarily focused on the intrusive thoughts the OP expressed to her boss. It’s quite possible that the boss has kept that information to themselves. Safeguarding the workforce from burnout because they are having to pick up the slack is a bigger issue. The longer it goes on and the uncertainty it creates could lead to other staff members taking sick leave.
I think we can safely conclude from the posters who insist on repeating their message about OCD they have personal experience of the condition. We get it but it is not relevant to the original post, since the OPs dismissal was on the grounds of ill health not OCD specifically.

At the end of the day, op said ocd takes up alot of her day and there is no end in sight! This ties in with oc health.. not fit to return in the foreseeable. If the question was can they dismiss based on this info from oc health along with absence length then absolutely. But employer still needs to follow a fair process.
However would op win a tribunal? No one can answer that. We are getting one side of a story. A story that has holes.
Op, if you disagree with the decision then please appeal.

The op mentions asd and communication styles being misinterpreted. I have asked for more info as that could be useful/relevant. I imagine starting a thread like this and then answering lots of questions whilst other ops are telling op they are a bad employee and sharing misinformation about ocd would be overwhelming. Hence why op isn't being very forthcoming.

My opinion, I think you should exhaust appeal process. Speak to union, ensure they attend the appeal meetings with you and also speak to acas. But please give accurate information so they can give you the best advice.

Its impossible to know if you have a claim as this is all quite confusing and I think we aren't getting all necessary information. Id be wary sharing lots of information online as it could be triggering further ocd! Ie my ocd is triggered when I am anxious.

I work for a union but I can't advise in full here, of course.

Initial thought would be to appeal with medical evidence disputing the OH report that seems to be the basis for the dismissal. A letter from your psychiatrist would be helpful.

I would also question why the final meeting wasn't deferred until your rep returned from annual leave. Did you ask about this? You should have had the right to be accompanied and could have requested a reasonable postponement.

Of course I’ll stop 🫡

People aren't disagreeing with you. They're saying that employers can't take that risk without failing their duty of care.

Whatever his name is Professor Paul Salkovskis, who is one of the U.K's leading experts on OCD and has been working with people with OCD for upwards of 30 years.

But, sure, you know better🙄

She's not claiming to know better. She's telling you his expression of his mental health is harmful and traumatising to others. You don't get to traumatised others because of your mh

@Velumental He's not a person with OCD. He's a clinical psychologist with extensive experience of treating it.

The knife to the throat thing, which tbf I could have explained better, is part of a treatment called Exposure and Response prevention, where someone with OCD will, with support, confront situations they've been avoiding and refrain from carrying out compulsions.

Sometimes ERP goes further than most people would go in everyday life. The idea is that the further you go the more you can counteract the worry about something awful happening.

If I'm checking all my plug sockets before leaving the house, for example, becuase I'm scared of causing a fire. I might deliberately leave them on when I go out. I might leave the oven and the lights on too. It's not reckless risk taking - I wouldn't leave my hair straighteners on - just pushing hard against OCD.

ETA As part of the treatment, Prof Salkovskis invites patients with harm OCD to hold a knife against HIS throat. He is not holding knives to anyone's throat!!

This thread has become pointless now. People debating what ocd means. Start a new thread and debate it. It is taking away from ops question. Ffs

@MrsBrendaFarfetched that's a fair point. Although it's not really up for debate any more than the definition of diabetes is up for debate, it's a medical diagnosis which folk are misunderstanding.

I keep getting notifications and im being hopeful thinking its an update from op. Nope. Its always someone who thinks their knowledge or experience trumps everything.

@KittyCoo

You are wrong to say someone with a disability cannot be ever sacked. They can- including because of the impact of the disability- it is just a lot more difficult and the employer has to show they have followed correct procedures in order for it not to be deemed discriminatory. I’m not saying your employee has followed the correct procedures, as I don’t know and I suspect nobody on here will be able to be 100% sure either. I think you should speak with your union for advice, and perhaps see if your house insurance covers legal advice.

However, I would say that if the occupation health doctor’s assessment/report was that you were not fit to return to work, your employer will have had to abide by that decision- they have not got discretion to ignore it. The recommendations are usually deemed binding in most workplace guidance/policies, unless it is something like workplace adaptation or adjustments where they can be set aside if the employer can satisfactorily prove those adjustments are not manageable within the organisation. If the employer dud chose to ignore the assessment/recommendations made in that report- and something untoward happened that could be said to be due to the condition(s) that the report stated were causing you to be unfit for work- it is almost certain that they would be held responsible and deemed negligent for ignoring the OH report.

I know you don’t agree with the outcome of the OH assessment, but that does not mean your employer can ignore it and chose to go along with your assessment of your health- regardless of your psychiatrists opinion (though I’m not clear that they have said you are fit to return to work, or not).

in terms of dismissal, they can terminate a contract (even for someone with ASD or any other disability) if that person is proven incapable of doing the job permanently, or after a certain period of time without any prospect of improvement. If the reason for the person being deemed permanently unfit is not linked to the disability, it is slightly more straightforward. As an extreme example, a lorry driver with ASD who unfortunately became blind would not be protected from dismissal on grounds of incapability because there is simply no way of that person being able to fulfil essential duties and no adaptation which would make it possible. The ASD does not negate that fact, and so it would be hard to argue discrimination in that circumstance.

The question, therefore, becomes one of whether they have followed the correct processes and procedures? It seems they have at least partially done so, as they have gone down occupational health assessment route and abided by their assessment. Whether they have stuck to the letter of the rules, none of us can say. I think that if you’ve been off for 7, heading towards 8 months, with no realistic prospect of returning to work “in the foreseeable future”- according to the OH assessment- you might find they can start the process. It is less clear if they followed correct procedures throughput, so you need to get proper legal advice.

That the dismissal is in part due to concern for the safety of other staff has come entirely from PPs.

The reason given by the company is that OP is not capable of doing the job she was employed to do. She has been off for seven months (so not doing the job at all), with no timescale for return, and when she is in work much of her time and headspace is taken up by intrusive thoughts so she is not giving the time and attention to the job that it needs from her. The reason seems watertight to me, as long as they have followed the correct procedure. While it is a reasonable business decision, if it was implemented without compliance that would give rise to a claim however valid the reason.

If i knew that a colleague had expressed such sentiments and i knew that they had ocd - I would still refuse to work in the same work environment as them, and I believe my colleagues would do the same.

If i was the manager, and a member of my team came to me and told me this thought they were having and I knew they had OCD, I would ask them to stay in my office for a minute. Meanwhile I would leave my office, call HR, explain situation and say that I want them off the premises as I believe they constitute a possible threat to employees

Well then you and all your colleagues could do with a bit of training (or just normal human empathy). But it's irrelevant in this case as there is no suggestion that OP's employers' concerns are that she'll hurt other people, it's that she can't do her job.

Well according to the thread title it’s because of “long term sick leave”.

This won’t go anywhere. There will be an enormous back story which we are not privy to

Be aware that even if this does go to tribunal and you win or not, if the media picks up on this (and they could) you could either be very employable or very unemployable.

Having said that I know (was in same building as my sol’s place of work), a highly renowned legal employment solicitor if you need his details. Pm me.

Try acas first though.

A legal case will be hard to take forward, even a tribunal. You have to be an incredibly strong character to even consider it.

I would also think about job hunting like now and maybe retraining.

Charities can be nice places to work and some employers give priority to applicants with a disability eg mental health. I myself am recovering from mental health issues, used the employment service within my mental health support team and got a permanent part time job last week. My first perm job for a few years! For a housing association. Before that I was doing continuous contract work which though nice wasn’t stable.

More than likely.

This. You cannot have possibly violent employees in the workplace. What if there was an attack?

It’s probably a bit of both but they’re not saying.

Moral of the story, if you have a complex mental health condition that only trained professionals understand, don't tell anyone especially your manager any details of it, as it will be used against you.

The reason given by the company is that OP is not capable of doing the job she was employed to do. She has been off for seven months (so not doing the job at all), with no timescale for return, and when she is in work much of her time and headspace is taken up by intrusive thoughts so she is not giving the time and attention to the job that it needs from her.

This is the crux of it. The nature of the intrusive thoughts are neither here nor there.

This is a thread. People have opinions. They answered based on what OP posted. What do you expect, only professionals to be able to give an opinion? That is ridiculous. Why the OP is not answering pertinent questions though, like how is OCD is taking a big bart of their working day? Because this is the mostt important part that could prove or disprove if she is able to do her job. OP also said there is no end in sight, if this is the case how can she do her job in the future? I'm waiting