In a country where savings don’t seem to matter….

[Unap100]

Do you really blame anyone for squandering their retirement fund and expecting the government to pick up the tab?

I’ve been an avid saver. I am not hugely wealthy but through my savings I’ve recently paid my house off of 450k and I’m 39. I have 34k in the bank.

But to what end?

YES of course there are benefits personally and NO I don’t want to be on the bones of my arse with no choices in life.

But seriously… I’ve worked in care homes etc and why the hell should one person have that funded and the next person have worked all their life to fund it? You might get a slightly nicer care home for a bit but they’re all underfunded and barely satisfactory anyway.

Genuinely, where’s the fairness in that? Where’s the incentive to work? It then either goes to a care home or taxed away.

I never thought I’d say this but spending it all while you can doesn’t seem a bad idea. AIBU? What’s your view on this?!

But the answer is not to widen the gap by having the people at the bottom have even less.

This is very much my experience too. I attend several groups for people with MH/ND and on the surface you would think we all look fine.
All of us have faced huge barriers when it comes to getting and keeping employment. The people who pass through our groups who are capable of working don't stay long, because they get jobs.

Thats an intersting gap. Can I ask where you got your stats from please? I will try and find my source.

I do think at this point, we do need to look at these threads where the OP starts with a post that’s about a contentious political issue and then doesn’t return to their thread- as not being in good faith.

im not sure if they are are trying to influence the debate or trying to get a feel for the uk political mood of real people - but they aren’t genuine.

The sheer number on care home costs recently where the OP disappears after first post is making me suspicious.

But if you are genuine OP, it is idiotic to spend all your money so 68-80+ is really hard for you (spoiler alert - benefits aren’t all that generous), just so you can game the system on the off chance you are in the minority who need residential care for more than 2 years in old age.

But yes, well done, you’ve sown the seed to a group of 30/40-somethings that they’ll end up having the state taking all their money and other people will get the same for free.

Die with zero! Help your kids now rather than waiting till you’re in the grave

That's an interesting idea as someone who is desperately trying to save as I have no property to leave my kids.

Absolutely this.

You say you’ve worked in care homes - but I don’t think your experience is very wide if you think they are all the same. Even visiting a small selection in my locality when looking for accommodation for my mum has told me that there is a huge difference from the more basic to the luxury ones. Sure the actual care may be the same, but in terms of an older person having any quality of life in there, they are widely different.

I think you are just being goady though - like these types of post generally are.

Tolerating a small degree of unfairness is the price of living in a civilised society.

In most cases it’s better to focus on stuff in our power to change (ie our own skills and earning power) rather then fretting about deep social issues that often don’t really have any good solutions, especially in the short-medium term.

It is crazy to me that there are people who would rather deliberately leave themselves without the financial means to buy the best care if needed, because they think people who lived in rented accommodation and had no savings would also be in the care home with them.

They would rather limit their own choices, so that the state would pay for them too, because the state pays for others.

And why? Because ... its not fair. I can only hear those words in the whiny voice of a child who didn't get sweets at the shop.

In 20, 30 years, when the country is out of money and those who can't pay for care are in bloody awful conditions, cheapest of the cheap, I hope those who could have paid for better but chose to spaff money up the wall so the state couldnt take it will be happy that the state did indeed pay for them just like the person in the next bed to them in the crowded dorm of elderly people being helped by too few staff.

Meanwhile, I'll be in my mid range not wonderful but certainly better place that i was able to pay for because providing for myself mattered more than not letting someone else get something for free that I didn't get for free.

Also, what sort of paternalistic society are we thinking should exist that “rewards” us for working for our living and paying our way?

Most people on here would run a mile from voting for socialism and couldn’t be more scathing of it, judging from the comments made on this and other threads, yet they also harbour a seething resentment for not being looked after. It’s a grievance culture.

That’s capitalism folks. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, earn your way and suck it up. Life is hard and unfair. Others have done it and so should you.

£450k - not hugely wealthy? Don't kid yourself, compared to a fair percentage of the population you are and it's disgenuous to suggest otherwise.

What are your suggestions btw? I'm not sure there's a reasonable alternative.

Edited as clicked too soon.

Family trusts are the way forwards.

Also, there are so many jobs that pay minimum wage/ low wages that are important for society, such as care workers / HCA’s. I’m very grateful people do these jobs and can see why the end up with limited savings / renting in old age and needing state support. It’s a shame we can’t make sure everyone is paid properly in the first place.

No that’s right. Perhaps we could bring back the Poor Houses. Can you not see what you sound like?

That’s my approach - minus the climbing wall! My DSs would have been so envious!

Work hard - pay the mortgage off and have some fantastic experiences on holiday. Working long hours including extra paid work eg external examining allowed us to see whales off Cape Cod, for example. I’m not spending my days worrying in case the state claws some back for care costs. I don’t even think about that, to be honest.

That’s a lot of money in the house and no flexibility. I see us getting into your situation and I don’t like it.

I asked on Reddit personal finance and it was referred to as akin to fur coat no knickers. They actually suggested I remortgage to release funds to redistribute to my pension, and ISAs in an investment portfolio.

Scary thing is, they are probably going to get their wish. Things are bad and they are only going to get worse.

YABU to say “I’m not hugely wealthy” yet you’ve amassed nearly 500k at 39. Or do you mean your mortgage free house is now worth 450k rather than that you paid off 450k? Because many people at 39 wouldn’t have even earned 500k net in their entire working life, let alone been able to amass it in savings.
I save. I earn 3500 net a month but my outgoings are so high that I can’t put aside more than 500 a month and I realise that compared to many, I am very privileged indeed.

“At this festive season of the year, Mr. Scrooge,” said the the gentleman, taking up a pen, “it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.”

“Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge.

“Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

“And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”

”They are. Still,” returned the gentleman, “I wish I could say they were not.”

“The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?” said Scrooge.

“Both very busy, sir.”

“Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”

“Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,” returned the gentleman, “a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?”

”Nothing!” Scrooge replied.

”You wish to be anonymous?”

“I wish to be left alone,” said Scrooge. “Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don’t make merry myself at Christmas and I can’t afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.”

“Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.”

“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”

@Unap100 hopefully you have taken a balanced approach and not avoided living life just in order to build up savings?

We overpay the mortgage and save but we also make sure we travel and enjoy life with the children too

I do know a couple of people who focus on accumulating savings at the expense of enjoying life at all now and I think that is really sad. None of us know how many years we have on this earth.

Yes this absolutely.

It should be possible to pass down assets like housing as the money has been taxed once. So what if you bought a house instead of going to the pub.

Why should I pay for my care when other people don't have to? We don't allow euthanasia so there is no choice.

We never tell cancer patients that they have to pay for their treatment, so why the elderly? Noone chooses old age. The Government won't let us opt out so they should pay for it.

I plan to just stop taking my medication if I get to the point I need to go into a care home and pay for my care - I don't want a long drawn out old age in an institution

Planning on not needing care, either by; the MP's and House of Lord's joining the 21st century and allowing me to die peacefully on my terms with a needle, or if they don't, needs be by swallowing a bottle of nice rum then the barrel of one of my shotguns.

In the interim time between then, I will spend the time when I retire, removing money from my private pension in the most tax efficient way possible, and either blow it enjoying it myself, or spend on my children/grandchildren or ultimately hide it as best I can. I already currently have about £70k worth of silver and gold Britannias/Sovereigns, that exist nowhere on paper, the council will certainly never know about them, which if I haven't cashed it in before my death, will never pay for care fee's and will go straight to my children.