To worry about life now that young people's basic skills are so poor

[CurdinHenry]

They're taking on responsibility for such important things and you have to check everything they do because the ways of thinking that used to be taught and hammered home just aren't any more and their concentration is shot (never mind their incentive to work hard since they often won't be able to afford to move out of home regardless).

Not their fault, the fault of the education system and wider society.

(Scotland specific, maybe England is better)

And all those computer games, whatever happened to those. Plus you were going to do everything with your thumbs because of all that texting

I think this isa really mixed bag OP, my son is 27 and works in IT on the hardware side for an MSP - he is onsite de facto IT manager for clients ranging from plumbing chain to hedge funders and media clients - reason being he is great with tech but he is also great with clients face to face - bog standard Oxford comp for his GCSEs then straight into an apprenticeship at 16 with BTEC day release.
however he would partly agree with you about many of their team under 30 . The big issue seems to be an inability to pick up a phone or deal with clients face to face or engage in a bit of chit chat even or show any interest in clients businesses. It’s if spending hours on laptops and phones for leisure has killed a desire to ‘communicate’ with actual people outside of texting or commenting online - he certainly is very numerate and writes really well- but not blind to the fact that they struggle to recruit young people who are all rounders who can cope with routine month on month and not be off for weeks with stress just because ‘it’s busy’ - and that includes plenty of young grads too

Where are you finding these young people that are like this? Most young people I know are studying A levels, degree, masters, some even doing their PhD and/or they’re working with a good career path planned. They know how competetive and tough life is and generally are far more capable and focused than my generation seemed to be. I am also involved in assessment centres for graduates at work and the young people coming through are shit hot to the point that some staff, even with years of experience, have commented that they’re quite intimidated by them. I have a lot of hope for the future based on the young people I see.

I work in higher education, often with young people who are 20-26 ish, and certainly the ones I work with are incredibly resourceful and driven. Much more so than us oldies in our 40s and 50s. It was absolutely not doing work of that calibre when I was their age. They also problem solve and come up with solutions in ways that definitely couldn’t.

Admittedly, uni students, including some in postgraduate courses, are maybe not average, but I’ve worked with many, many students over the years and I don’t have any concerns about their skillset. Maybe they can’t change a tyre (nor can I!) or solve a plumbing issue (again me neither), but they probably have better skills at a lot of things compared to me. 😂

My own dd is 13. Has a job, works three afternoons a week, really talented at sport, can design a PowerPoint better than me with 20 years professional experience, knows what she wants to do, already looking universities.

I agree with the majority of your points, and your dd's school sounds amazing. However your point with your trainee seems to underscore what you're saying - either he is, as the OP has seems to be suggesting (although refusing to provide specifics) lazy and uncaring if he has come out of school after at least 12 years of education unable to use an apostrophe, or, as your description of him suggests that's not the case, he had been badly failed by his schools, thus indicating your dd's school is significantly better than average compared to some (or at least the ones he went to) doing a very poor job if kids can leave them not knowing the basics of grammar.

I don't agree they can learn "everything else along the way" - there's a lot to learn in your first job/s anyway, both role specific for whatever career he is training in, and general -timeliness, personal interaction, etc. It's not fair to also be expected to pick up the absolutely basic education he should have been taught ten years ago. Otherwise what's the point of school if they aren't even teaching that, we may as well go back to the majority of kids leaving at 12 and starting apprenticeships!

Anyone who posts as if all people in a given group are identical (and identically bad) is by default extremely unreasonable.

Haha this is absolute bullshit. Do you remember when adults needed to be told not to drink and drive? 🤣

This is an odd thread considering the other thread you have started.

Umm .. scores for attainment in maths, science and literacy have risen over the last 30 years, OP. And my grammar school education, which I finished over 40 years ago, had woeful gaps which I’ve worked hard to fill. I think curriculum design is carried out more thoughtfully and teaching managed more close my.

What an odd sweeping opinion to have, I have 4DC ages 20-32, all very smart and capable; in uni/good careers. All educated in Scotland, I think our education is good and there will be those who struggle/get by/ excel.

Don’t you have crippling anxiety that stops you from going to family gatherings and other social situations?
Seems like you also don’t have basic life skills. Hypocrite!

My young person is bloody amazing! It another era he’d be out working already.

You might need to clarify who you are addressing that to.

"It was ever thus!"

I worked with young trainees in the 80s and became responsible for recruitment/training of trainees in the 90s. They were a mixed bag back then too. Lots were poor at communications, lots struggled with routine, following instructions, lots were incredibly immature.

The thing was that most of them turned into "functional" adults within a couple of years of working in the workplace, side by side with adult/experienced staff, being forced to deal with clients/customers by gradually easing them in, ensuring they saw and listened to how other staff communicated with clients/staff/customers etc., so they could emulate the kind of conversations we had with third parties etc.

It was "a given" that those straight out of school or uni were likely to be "raw" in an adult workplace and all the other staff really didn't expect much from them and all kept an eye on them, helping them when they struggled, stopping them from doing stupid things etc. The main thing was that we checked they were improving and making progress as the months past - those who didn't were let go.

Yes, "some" arrived on our doorstep a lot more confident, able, etc., but they were a minority.

I remember one of the trainees we took on straight from uni who was very "rough and ready" - barely able to communicate in person, scratty/untidy appearance, barely said anything more than the occasional grunt and absolutely no obvious personality or interest in talking to people. After a couple of years, he'd turned into a star employee - started taking care of his appearance, always clean shaven, started wearing a suit and tie, built up his confidence to talk to anyone freely, etc. It was really lovely to see his development, both workwise and personality wise.

I think things are a lot worse now due to WFH, online training courses, etc., so that youngsters don't have the same 9-5 five day exposure to their work colleagues - building their confidence in communications, their abilities in the work place etc is obviously going to take a lot longer if they're not "immersed" in face to face workplace, face to face courses/training, etc.

We really shouldn't be blaming the youngsters themselves for the awful environment they find themselves in. Those graduates entering the workplace today suffered from the disruption to their education due to covid, schools closed, locked into their uni flats with no face to face teaching, the revolutionary change repivotting business/professional training courses from face to face into online (which has never reversed to how it was pre covid etc).

Due to poor trading conditions, increased taxes and employment rights etc., fewer firms are taking on young staff, so jobs are harder to find.

Today's youngsters who struggle would mostly benefit from being in the workplace, being around adults in a professional environment, etc. It's not their fault there are no jobs for them.

I do agree with you too , I was a bank clerk on the tills at16 - intensive 6 weeks off site training before starting, proper training, I knew everything from what to do in event of robbery to new accounts to deceased or dormant accounts -this was when banks were packed- at 3 months I could have dealt with anyone face to face - far far fewer of those kinds of roles as you say, far less investment in decent full on training- with trainers- not just given an online ‘programme to follow’ - unfortunately so many companies try to do everything to boost the bottom line without investing in their people

My son is 23, did a four year apprenticeship straight out of college and is now a qualified electrician, works extremely hard and earns a shit load more than I do.
My step daughter is 16, currently doing her GCSE’s and is predicted grades of 6-9, will start A levels in September and has just started her first Saturday job in a hair salon.
I work with lots of young adults, some work hard, some are useless.. Along with any other age group.

Well my son and girlfriend are not part of this at all. They are both getting their masters (and got them paid for) and have jobs lined up for after they graduate. They cook homemade, my son made jam as Christmas presents and his girlfriend crochets and sends thank you notes. My son has taken metal smithing classes and they want to learn how to can pasta sauce. I’m not sure what else you expect!

Let's hope they have more punctuation skills than your op.

Is it because mums are still cutting their grapes in half at 25?

“Better” punctuation skills. Not “More”.

This is pure blether.

Look up historic illiteracy rates. Look at what they study for Maths GCSE now. Look at how many achieve tertiary qualifications.

Manual skills, yes - the number of people who can do various skilled manual tasks is much reduced. But book learning?? People used to leave school at 16, before that 14, before that even younger, before that didn't go.

I have four DDs. The 16yo worries me the most, but the 14yo isn’t far behind. Neither seem to be able to commit to any decision without asking me - their ability to think critically is non existent. They can’t do things like fathom a bus timetable for example. I do think it’s a combination of my parenting (not lazy but just tend to do things for them so they’ve never needed to develop the skills) and the reduced exposure to the outside world than I had when I was their age. They get driven everywhere/can communicate with me if plans change etc.

I think exams are way harder now by sheer volume. For one thing the entirety of Y11 is mocks - I sat one set of mocks in January, now it starts at the end of Y10. It's relentless and you basically can't have a life for that year if you want strong results.

I probably sat about 13 or 14 separate exams for 9 subjects (relatively high at the time because I did two languages, so there was a written, listening and spoken for each) - my oldest sat at least 21 separate exams for the same number.

I do think some kids have less interaction with strangers and definitely are less streetwise, you get some who would rather die than have to return an item to a shop and talk to someone about it. That's not the end of the world and can be got over. In our case we very deliberately made our kids do stuff like this and travel independently as soon as was reasonable (by secondary school age) and it's been a very good thing.

The way they've been raised is down to you.
But also - were you REALLY thinking critically aged 14? I wasn't. I was just going to school and going to work and doing as I was told.
Reading a bus timetable isn't critical thinking!

I bet you couldn't do lots of things your granny could - because times change.

Going back to my example below working as a bank cashier at 16, I think a Saturday job in a hair salons another really good one for building up being able to deal with people face to face and be able to ‘small talk’ - it’s good life skill to have- my son did his apprenticeship straight out of school too and like yours I don’t regret it at all - he is doing exactly same job as grads but with a 5 years head start