Benefits v Defence Lord Robertson

[Wednesdayschild87]

Lord Robertson’s Speech… seriously does anyone care?? He’s laid out the fact that as a nation we can’t carry on like this… he said we can’t afford to keep throwing money at benefits whilst leaving our country defences I’m actually shocked no one has come out and spoken on this matter before. I’m incredulous.

Though I agree it can't simply be sorted by "paying less welfare".

Why is pay so poor compared to the cost of living? THAT'S what needs to be addressed. There will need to be a total restructuring as AI makes so many jobs obsolete as well. What party will have the balls to take that on?

Oh they will.

Absolutely! It's not the fault of the poor that the economy is so terrible!

In what way is he a 'Labour grandee'?

He is a paid senior adviser for a US Defence lobbyist.

We need better MPs, not worse ones. Paying them less would lead to the most talented people (ie those with options) leaving for more lucrative careers. It's already not very attractive; I earn more than an MP and I have a very unimportant job.

Who is going to attack us? We have got nukes.

They probably will

Yep, as usual let's penalise those who try to help themselves.

Have a little think about why some disabled people might have costs which you don't have and how some may have less chance of mitigating those costs than you. Try to imagine how the minutiae of day to day life might be very different.

How much is a 'decent' pension? So if I end up in a care home, my own home will be taken off me/my family. Now you want my state pension too? OK. I'm off to hand my notice in as there is no point in working anymore. I'll sell my home to pay for it. Better that than the government steals it off my inheritees if I end up in a home.

The 64k dollar question is would "we" use them if subject to attacks using only conventional weapons...

The answer to that wayback was a "yes", a policy known as tripwire, nowadays only the PM knows....

Labour has already brought in some cuts to disability benefits this month. What other cuts would you like to see made so that defence can be better funded?

(Aware this will bring out the “nooo ni isn’t paying for your future pension it’s others now)
but how on earth do people think that anyone other than the usual “ oh I’d happily work for free and give all my salary over in tax to give benefits to others..👼😇”
will agree to working and not receiving the state pension when others haven’t contributed and get it?

You forget to mention that we are not even in the top 25 of percentage spent of GDP

Well @angelos02 we’re of course so happy we had the pleasure of working remember!

@IamRedCrossnotJesusisnt that the lottery of life?

My suggestion was removing non means tested disability benefits. You could set the income level at which they taper off / are removed at a level above the poverty line.

Pensions are not a benefit.

The state pension is means tested in that it now absorbs all of an OAPs tax code. Any income above that is taxed at 20 per cent.

Nail on the head.

Those who "could" work but aren't are double-costing the country. They're costing the country in terms of the benefits they receive. They're also costing the country in terms of lost productivity in what they could have done/made/achieved had they been working. So a double cost - not just the benefits claimed, but the opportunity cost of not being productive.

While this might be worthy of consideration, I don't see how it improves the funding crisis in the Armed Forces - it's not going to pay for new antidrone systems or destroyers is it?

That's not means testing, it's just taxable income. Means testing would be reducing/removing the state pension itself above certain income/asset levels.

Instead of targeting pensioners, most of whom worked all their lives and now face having to work many more years, since the pension age keeps rising, how about we start looking at some of the youth, many of whom claim to be "too anxious" to get off tiktok and look for employment? See how fast they get out of their beds when the benefits rug is pulled from under them 🤔

It’s disgraceful our defence is as it is. It’s particularly disgraceful the amount thrown at non-pension benefits. Outrageous amount being spent by taxpayers.

Taxation discourages behaviour whether it be on alcohol, tobacco or even a speeding fine is a form of taxation.

Subsidies or Benefits encourage behaviour whether it be heat pumps, ISA tax benefits etc

Now if you increase income tax to pay for increased benefits then don't be surprised when workers start to reduce hours, retire early or in the case of the very rich move abroad.

I think this point highlights that left wing politics is emotion driven politics of the heart "tax the rich they can afford it!".

Whereas right wing politics is reason driven politics of the head "if you increase income tax then you reduce the incentive to work ".

So, I lose my £12k state pension as I own my own home - a decent amount in an asset. So if I want a decent quality of life when I retire, having worked for 40 years, I'll have to sell my house to pay for it? Rightio. Remind me the point of working again?