Benefits v Defence Lord Robertson

[Wednesdayschild87]

Lord Robertson’s Speech… seriously does anyone care?? He’s laid out the fact that as a nation we can’t carry on like this… he said we can’t afford to keep throwing money at benefits whilst leaving our country defences I’m actually shocked no one has come out and spoken on this matter before. I’m incredulous.

@PoppinjayPollyit’s perfectly reasonable to assess new claimants of DLA and PIP and require submission of supporting evidence. New disability claims are never awarded on recipient say so.

It is also reasonable to assume that needs may change over a three year period particularly when the claimant is moving from DLA and has a condition like autism where development is delayed. Maybe needs will remain high but maybe they will be reduced so let’s reassess.

It is not reasonable to assess existing claimants with conditions that are not likely to improve every three years. The cost to the DWP and the carers is not warranted.

And then there is the reality that the DWP keep extending an award so that assessment is not completed before the next review is due. No short term security and constant limbo.

I have 2 DS. 1 whose review was completed on paper in weeks and 1 who has been waiting 2 years.

@Seymour5 but you understand you don’t represent every “oldie”? And they aren’t all the exact same age 😆

Plenty of oldies did receive family allowance…,

As well as not receiving nearly as good basic state pensions as younger retirees

Dont overlook the better private pensions though*

*Disclaimer - you may not have a great probate pension but the schemes were better for current “oldies”.

If only... but now we expect 30hrs of free childcare, even when you re a higher rate tax payer.
Energy support
Fuel support (or we'll block the roads)
WFA for a pensioner already on 35k pa ..

Where has our resilience gone? if petrol goes up, drive slower/less/walk (heavens above!) wear a fleece if its cold...
Don't have kids if you cannot afford the childcare....

But instead we expect the Govt to step in, whilst we buy coffees, buy our lunches and drive around without a care in the world.

If only... but now we expect 30hrs of free childcare, even when you re a higher rate tax payer

Why shouldn’t a high earner have subsidised childcare? More mothers work and more work full time.

You missed off avocados and Netflix from
your last bit, not quite a full house on the bingo card

Don't have kids if you cannot afford the childcare..

people aren’t having dc because it’s too expensive!

Where has our resilience gone?

When did this resilience exist?

When people were having lots of dc?
When there was more council housing?
The right to buy boom?
when MIRAS was a thing?

Indeed, I think people may have lost their resilience some time between losing fully funded university tuition and the chance to buy a home for a price less than ten times their yearly salary.

I like a nice Avo, never had Netflix.....

.... but plenty of people waste a fortune on coffees and shop made sandwiches for their work lunch.

Can easily add up to £30 or £40 per week, yet then demand & expect the Govt to spend billions reducing fuel duty.

Quite, there seems to be a pattern emerging @Sunglade!

*but plenty of people waste a fortune on coffees and shop made sandwiches for their work lunch.

Same how plenty used to waste an evening down the pub.

Can easily add up to £30 or £40 per week, yet then demand & expect the Govt to spend billions reducing fuel duty.

How have you deduced it’s people who buy shop made coffee who are demanding a cut in fuel duty?

Until recently, when fuel went up, no one expected the Govt to fund a price reduction.
Subsidise their home heating as they turned the 'stat to 21'C

Childcare? will cost around £10bn next year...

I really wonder about the memories of some of the self-proclaimed ‘oldies’ posting on here. Family Allowance was a universal allowance when it was introduced and it was of course given out from birth. Its value decreased over time due to inflation - I can remember the comments about it buying half a pram. But like every other benefit of the post war years it was not means tested and there were no sanctions applied.

Of course he’s right, OP. But, like every benefit thread on here stating the obvious, a small and repetitive core of posters on benefits themselves will turn up to make this an emotional issue rather than a financial one, as they have to deflect any and all scrutiny.

Do you want people in workhouses?
Do you want me to die?
Would you rather be disabled and get the benefits yourself?
You’re a terrible person.
Eugenics!
…Ad infinitum

So 🤷‍♀️ I’ve given up.

With your attitude, its no wonder we are in such a mess.

Childcare enables both parents to work and pay tax. Pensions? How does that help the economy?
(No I get no free childcare my kids are school age)

They need to claw the funds back from the landlords who fleeced us all to fund their long retirements and from the billionaires on the Times Rich List who do not simultaneously appear on the high taxpayers list. Starting with the Royal Family. The huge amount of public funds that have been and are still allowed to leave the country each year via privatised and foreign owned industries will make that harder, but no matter how much easier it is to target the working pleb they need to start recognising that we do not have it to give.

Yet we had a better economy, higher productivity, when people did not get almost universal Childcare.....

(i'm not making a causal link btw)

Good industrial policy is what boosts productivity and tax take, not constantly handing out freebies.
ie cutting edge military drone company moving to USA, leading Solar manufacturer setting up in Germany... in both cases, no support from UK Govt.

Tbf it’s Farage and Jenrick Ive seen bleating on about cutting fuel duty and they do quite often have coffees in hand, so perhaps it’s a fair point 😂

I don’t count pensions as a benefit in the usual sense. Because it is something that people have contributed to. You are even encouraged to buy more years. You can look up your forecast. To see how many years you have accrued via contributions. People may say that you haven’t technically contributed. But that is not how it was ever ‘sold’. It most certainly wasn’t sold as a contribution to the general welfare bill. But your pension.
The triple lock may have to go. Means testing it I would resist. The reason being that once you means test it the threshold to obtain it will in real terms get lower and lower and lower. People will be paying out but unlikely to get a pension.

There is a presumption that all old people are well off. They are not. Two members of my family live in rental properties. They have between them lost businesses, lost homes, been homeless. Older people are not because of their age all rich. There were recessions years ago and many people lost their homes.

There are many benefits available. They do need to rethink that.
And the tax credits mean employers do not pay people in the way they used to. A huge subsidy for them paid by the taxpayer. Not good.

And then we have billionaires. Who would not miss the odd million.They really would not. They cannot spend the money they have in their lifetime. But the country would benefit massively. I would like to see more billionaires putting their hands in their wallets a bit more.

Because it’s the biggest spend alongside NHS, and it has the dual burden of incentivising people not to work. So as the pool of taxpayers shrinks, the bill gets bigger.

I don’t think a lot of people realise just how many able bodied adults capable of work are claiming benefits. The numbers are staggering.

We have:
8.4 million people claiming Universal Credit (1 in 5 people)
Only 1.9 million of these claimants are required to seek work.
6.2 million of these claimants do not work at all, and many of the rest only very part time.
4.8 million people claiming PIP or DLA.

The average UC payment is £810. Half of claimants therefore will be claiming more than this.

This makes even less sense than your previous post!

It helps because without them ( and there was such a time) an old person would never give up work. They would also be dependant on local charities to survive. Because their ability to work would fail, or be reduced. So it helps society to give old people some dignity. Which is good for society. Or tries to. So they do not as they used to years before pensions began, literally starve. Only the well off could look after the old. Without a pension for older people, society is diminished.

Yet we had a better economy, higher productivity, when people did not get almost universal Childcare.....

You think we had a better economy because of the lack of childcare?! Wow 😆