Family dynamics

[BeRarePlumCrab]

Im a single mum but saw a restaraunt had opened that is more expensive than i would usually pay for a meal out. I would need to save to go but i mentioned it to my mum that it would be nice to go for a celebration ie my kids birthday or another milestone like completing school etc. She looked the place up online and said she would love to go.

Her and my brother live together and i never invite one without the other, it just goes without saying. When i invite them, it usually ends up in us not going at all because they cant commit, but want to go, so i feel like i have to wait for a time they can go which then may never happen and often my kids lose out. If i dont invite, and me and my kids go, i usually get the 'i could have done with a day out, i never get out anywhere' card.

Heres where i feel like i need to ask AIBU, because my feelings are pretty hurt here. A few days ago, i phoned my mum and she told me her and my brother have been to that restaraunt, twice. No invite for us but she did ask if shed upset me and all i could say was you are entitled to go out and do what you like. I had to listen to how amazing it was and what was on the menu. She kept saying have i upset you and all i could do was say no even though i am upset by this. I did remind her i had planned to go and she hit me back with, could i have afforded to go? Which no, not on the spurr of the moment so i dont know if my feelings are valid here.

For context, i invited them on holiday last summer and they couldnt commit so i went ahead and booked for me and the kids. I got told they were upset by this. Ive asked them again this year and theyve given excuses why they cant make it which are reasonable, so it means i have not booked as i dont want to upset anyone.

They still want to go for the meal when its my sons birthday but im seriously thinking about taking just the kids. I invite them to every birthday and celebration but never get invited to my brothers. The family dynamics here are hurtful.

AIBU for feeling the way i do?

You are right

Yes, my therapist told me something similar. Reality and expectations are different. He also taught me i can love someone but not like them. The problem here is actually me. Im bending over backwards to mend bridges they broke.

Stop being a people pleaser!!! Read up on asserting boundaries and toxic relationships.

They knew exactly what they were doing going to the restaurant.

And book the holiday for you and the kids.

This sounds right.

Book your holiday, centre your kids not your mum and brother who sound like a waste of space….

Give them a deadline if you like and if you don’t hear anything then just book it. Don’t let these donkeys prevent you from doing nice things with your little family.

Not at all. Ill agree to disagree about controlling my feelings. I have severe anxiety and its not by choice. Nobody would choose this.

Did they actually break any bridges? Or is the family dynamic so trauma bonded and fucked up that there were never any bridges to break

Theres a view ive not seen before....

Your mother is a manipulative dick stop involving her in your life.

OP, look up the scapegoat and golden child scenario.
There’s a very long running thread in Relationships called Stately Homes, it’s for people with dysfunctional families, you might consider to join it.

Your mother is scapegoating you and treating you and your kids outrageously.
Look at what she does and not what she says.Actions speak for themselves words are cheap.
You’re not “allowed” to go out without her and your brother(whom she sees as extension of her), you’re not allowed to have feelings ( but she’s allowed
She hurts you on purpose and calls you silly if you admit being hurt( purposely by her) and she subjects you and your kids to interrogation(who the heck does it?)

Divide and conquer tactic in all its glory to make you and your kids suffer from a control freak your mother is.Utterly toxic environment for you and your children.

Here’s what to do to release yourself from this toxic dynamic.

Go back to the therapist.

Put your mother on information diet- no sharing intentions of where do you want to go with kids or what do you want to do. You’re entitled to lead your own life without being controlled by your mother and her “upsets”. You’re not responsible for her feelings. Strangely enough she enjoys upsetting you and your kids.

Stop inviting your mother (and your brother) to things with your kids and waiting for response.If you do in years to come your kids will have no memories of going places because you were always waiting for your mother. By always doing your mother’s bidding you’re damaging your children!Is that what you want?You’re teaching them it’s ok to be treated this way.

Go back to the therapist(find another one if first one didn’t help).

Accept that your mother won’t change.Grieve for relationship you could have had. You’re not responsible for her feelings and are entitled to have yours.
Reduce the contact.

Go on, have life. Book to go to these places with your kids.Either don’t tell them until you go there(so they can’t slip the info to your mother) or if you tell them and they slip step into interrogations and turn the tables with your mother telling her to stop being silly if she’s “upset” by lack of invitation.

Good luck, take care of yourself

OP, what's your friendship group like? Sounds like you need some more outlets and people to do nice things with. You and your family are far too involved in each other's business.

I’m not going to give you advice on how to make your family dynamics better, how to communicate with them, how to handle these kinds of situations.

What do they bring to your life? What are the positives spending time with them? Why are you trying?

From my perspective they just cause you pain. You don’t have to seek them out.

I’d recommend stepping away. Organise your life differently. And don’t dismiss @PollyBell’s idea about having control of your feelings too quickly. Think about it a bit longer. It’s a really interesting idea. We can have some control over how we react to things, and we can practise reacting differently. With lots of practice it gets easier and you start to feel differently.

Most importantly, you are giving your mother power to hurt you at the moment. Take it back. She doesn’t deserve it.

All I've taken from your post is that you and your DC are not having a holiday this year because your DM and DB may get upset.

Please find one you want to go, assuming you can still afford it, tell you mum you are booking at the weekend/payday and will they be coming or not. And then please book.

You and your DC deserve a holiday. Don't put your life on hold and your children miss out.

Thank you, that was incredibly useful information and very detailed explanations.

Yeah put your mum on minimal info.

she’s got you both ways - if you go without her she makes you feel guilty and if you invite her she can’t commit and you miss out.

just go. Don’t tell her.

I would struggle to afford it now, and the place i want to stay is likely fully booked. They said they would go next year and ive told them it needs booking early so im booking in september with or without them for next summer. Last year was the first proper holiday i had with my kids and they all loved it. My eldest is nearly 16 so i dont imagine there will be many more so i want to do it asap again. Ive planned lots of day trips this year but i will be keeping quiet until theyre done. Ill still go ahead with the celebratory meal, they can come or not.

“Ive asked them again this year and theyve given excuses why they cant make it which are reasonable, so it means i have not booked as i dont want to upset anyone.”

OP, if they’ve given reasonable excuses, then don’t give it another thought - book the holiday for you and your DC. If you think your DM will make this into a blame game (and you care - the problem here is that you shouldn’t) then tell them, “Mum, I’ve booked a holiday to Shangri La on July 29th for a week, so if you want to come too, you and DB need to book it.” Then it’s up to them what they do, and they can’t say you’ve upset them. You are a grown woman with children, OP: you’re not joined at the hip to your DM. She’s got you just where she wants you - she does what she wants without you, but makes you feel guilty for doing anything without her. You are entitled to your own life. If you want to go to a restaurant, then book it and go. If she asks the DC, let them tell her- and if she does the “upset” routine, remind her that she can’t possibly be upset because she and DB went without you, so it’s hardly unreasonable for you to go out for a meal with your own DC without her and DB sometimes. You are letting your DM control you, OP - you need to take the initiative, and if your mother chooses to be upset, that’s up to her.

Its dire, i have one friend and her hubby but theyre great. I really couldnt wish for better but they dont live local and she has health issues. I can work on improving my circle but came out of dv relationship and didnt want to. Guess i felt safe in my very small bubble. Its had to be baby steps.

With all kindness I think you still need therapy. I think you can now see the dynamic for what it is, but still don’t have the capacity or skills to handle it or not be hurt by it.

Your mother gets a sense of importance and worth from being able to generate hurt. She does these things to cause you upset- that makes her feel validated- if you push back you are being unreasonable, if you don’t then she keeps walking all over you and causing you and your kids harm.

I don’t know why you are back in contact with her tbh. She hasn’t changed.

I agree, honestly. My therapist was brilliant and gave me tools to help but theyve slowly gone out of the window. My mum didnt and still doesnt agree with me having therapy but i put my foot down and said its not about you, its about me and my personal needs. Ive definitely told her too much in the past. Shes definitely on an information diet here on out and i might just take my kids to that restaurant next week.

The problem is, a family like yours teaches you to be vulnerable to any shit who comes along, because it’s your normal. So you end up having to keep everyone at a distance because it’s safer than letting in people who may be waving red flags.

It’s a process, re educating yourself after the kind of training your mum gave you.
Your emotions matter. And they should matter more to you than hers or your brother’s.

Organise your life to suit you and your DCs. That’s your priority. What suits your mother is for her to think about, not you.

Your mum will not want you having therapy because she knows that it helps you to see the situation for what it is and isolating you is a tool for her.

If you have someone in your corner affirming that the situation isn’t right it removes her power.

Go back to therapy, start to get out of your bubble, even if in the early days it’s not to make friends but just soak up the time you would have spent seeing her.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. ‘It’s ok for them to do it to me but not the other way round’.

It’s exactly the same in my family. They can do what they like to me but the minute I step away from the family norm, I get told about it. It took me 10 years of trying to fight against it and change them and in the end I moved away, don’t tell them anything and left them to their weird enmeshed life! Now I see them on my terms and umm and ahh in the right places then go home and live my life with family I’ve chosen (husband and DC).

OP, focus on your own family and don’t tell them anything.

I get this too. ‘You’re being silly. Oversensitive. Petty. Etc’

It makes me said to see you posting this at 4am ( if ur in the UK) as I’d be up at night thinking about this too 😔

@BeRarePlumCrab Have some stock phrases ready when she starts her guilt tripping routine if she finds out you've been without her:

"Don't be silly" and laugh (the way she would say it to you)
"Oh no, have I upset you? Have I?" (with the same mock-concern she gives you and if she says yes, you've upset her - then say "Oh dear" and leave it at that)

A previous poster said to book and tell her you've booked for X dates and then it's up to her to join or not. That's a good idea. It takes away the 'waiting around' for them to make a decision.

You need to take charge and I also think you should tell yourself in the mirror EVERY DAY that you are:

STRONG
CAPABLE
AND TRUST YOUR OWN JUDGMENT

Good luck. Personally, I would cut contact. Your mother is awful.

I can relate in a way to this family dynamics and I think you need to reframe your mindset a bit.
You mentioned a place and they went - it’s ok actually. They don’t invite you to go out with them. It’s a pity. Do as they did. If you fancy going somewhere just go with your kids.
If you want to invite your mum and brother for something invite specifically with a deadline and follow it eg would you go with us to pizza express for Jack’s birthday. I’m planning 17th at 1 pm. Let me know by Wednesday if you join us.
Text your brother separately and then follow up as you would with a friend. If not confirmed don’t book for them .
Do it a few times and you will notice the difference.