Dog walker wants cash in hand

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Started using a new dog walker in January, as old one moved away. Today he messaged and asked if I can start paying cash. Ive been paying by bank transfer and always on time. AIBU to think no, you can be paid through the correct channels like everyone else. For the record he charges towards the higher rate for the area, so it's not like I'm getting a bargain.

There are a lot of assumptions here. I’m a self employed dog walker, I do pet visits too (mainly cats when people go away).

I don’t mind how I’m paid, and I declare every penny that I earn therefore making sure I pay the correct amount of tax.

Sometimes customers pay me before I’ve had a chance to send an invoice. They may send a bank transfer on the same day that I do the work- before I’ve had a chance to raise an invoice. Or sometimes they leave cash- usually in an envelope with my name on which is waiting for me when I first arrive (this tends to be done by my elderly customers for some reason). If I am paid before I’ve raised an invoice, I’ll either leave a hand-written receipt, or for bank transfers I’ll send a receipt via email.

All of this is absolutely above board. I’d prefer if customers waited for their invoice but if prefer to pay immediately that is, of course, not a problem- I’m just grateful to be paid!

I would like to point out to people who are reading this thread that although everyone must of course follow all rules WRT paperwork, declaring income and paying tax, those rules are not identical across all business types. Things that apply to Ltd companies or corporations for example may not apply to a self employed sole trader.

If you are happy with him then then asking for a discount to pay cash. FCS, I did that with a contractor for kitchen work. Done and dusted.

Pay him in Euro notes just for fun.

How vile and disrespectful that would be.

If you pay cash in hand so that the other party does not pay tax or can void paying VAT then you are complicit and can be prosecuted. It doesn’t happen often as they go after the person avoiding tax and only after those colluding if there are large sums at play… or you have are a person of repute who ought to have known better (a deputy prime minister or a Board Director, say).

And yes, we pay a lot of taxes and are wealthy - but I grew on in a council flat and on free school meals. I fully understand what it is like to go from July to September without a morsel of food crossing my lips unless a neighbour took pity on me; and what handing my free meal green plastic disc over at the school canteen till felt like with my peers watching with their cash in hand. I remember what second hand uniform was like and shoes two sizes too small and being left alone with my infant siblings all night while my mother cleaned toilets. So park your inverted snobbery.

My DH works 14-18 hours a day/seven days a week and has done so since he left university, so for over 30 years, proving that hard work really does pay off. Moreover, he does so and happily pays his taxes in full so that children who grew up like me have access to social care and their parents get liveable benefits so that they, too, don’t go with out. So no, people fiddling their books and lying about their income aren’t just getting a little win. They are stealing funds that should be spend on deprived kids, kids with SEN and the NHS.

So you think he should be avoiding tax?

as this is what asking for a discount to pay cash actually means.

”I know you aren’t declaring this so I want a share of the tax you save if I pay cash”

So he said to you "I want you to pay me in cash so that I can avoid declaring it on my tax return so that I don't pay tax on it"?

Because that's what "cash in hand" means. Not just paying for something in cash. Presumably you pay for other things using cash sometimes?

😂

I (like you) am posting on a discussion forum…if everybody considered it wasn’t their business to ask questions, give opinions etc Mumsnet would be a very quiet place!

The poster had stated that two people she paid in cash paid their tax - it seemed unlikely to me that she can know this for sure, which is why I asked how she did. Not sure why this is snobbery? (Or even snowberry)

I hadn’t actually voiced an opinion on whether they should pay tax, are paying tax etc - just that it seemed unlikely the poster could know however as previously posted, small businesses account for ~60% of £46.8 billion of tax not paid so I think it’s reasonable to expect people would have an opinion on that.

Yanbu. It’s for tax avoidance of course. Unless dog walkers are extremely hard to come by I’d say that it’s inconvenient for you so you’ll still continue to pay on time by bank transfer.

No assumptions here - I stated above - so long as he is invoicing and recording his bookings/issuing receipts then cash is fine. If he is not, then it is likely undeclared income and it is up to the OP where her moral compass lays with respect to paying him in that method. Some of us cannot risk it as the implications on our professional lives is too significant, hence we as a family do not pay ‘cash in hand’ but will only pay upon receipt of an invoice. Our dog walker/sitter and cleaner invoices us via an app so we don’t need to use cash.

That’s exactly what I said? Just paying business in cash isn’t enough - you have to know for example getting a discount to avoid VAT if paying in cash.

There was no inverted snobbery - I said maybe as I couldn’t be sure. That’s great for your husband but it’s not that easy for a lot of people. I just think you’re worrying about the wrong people! Why aren’t you this angry at the really rich corporations who don’t pay any tax? Or rich individuals that move their money and ensure they don’t pay tax? They’re stealing a hell of a lot more than a dog walker is!

Yes hard work paid off for him - I said hard work doesn’t pay off anymore. He left university over thirty years ago based on your response. Hard work generally did pay off then - you and your husband are living proof, but that isn’t the case anymore.

It’s so easy to sit and judge people from a position of privilege - also working 14-18 hours a day isn’t something I would want to brag out - you must barely see each other!

Not sure if there’s any rules about using a personal account for a business

I pay everyone by bank transfer so I know I’ve definitely paid them. We do r really have cash around - I can’t remember the last time I used cash in a shop etc.

I would assume this was to be undeclared for whatever reason (tax / child maintenance/ because they are signing on)

There different reasons for asking for cash that aren't dodgy.

Eg

Some business bank accounts charge fees for transactions.

He might need cash for some other payment and it saves him a trip to the bank (and transaction fees again).

When I tutored I only worked for cash. All declared but I cba chasing parents who didn’t pay so I didn’t accept bank transfer. Easy to insist on for me tho - I was constantly turning down work.

It really isn’t. That’s an easy political headline to say they will crack down on, but the reality is that a far larger amount comes from small businesses not declaring all their income. And being paid cash is the easiest way to avoid it.

I don't care what he does/doesn't declare. Not my business.

If you pay cash in hand so that the other party does not pay tax or can void paying VAT then you are complicit and can be prosecuted.

But that’s only relevant if OP knows the difference walker to be evading tax. As far as I can tell, there is precisely no evidence of this.

Dog walker!

I’m a dog walker and literally none of my clients pay cash, and I wouldn’t expect them to. I can’t speculate on his reasons for wanting cash, but I wouldn’t say it’s the norm at all. He’s entitled to ask, but you’re also entitled to say that you’d prefer not to as it’s not convenient. Personally, I’d get very confused if some people were paying cash and some weren’t, or even if all were paying cash, as I’d soon lose track of who has paid what.

My dogwalker only took cash. I had no problems.

It is in my bank!

Tell me you know nothing about tax evasion without telling me you know nothing about tax evasion.

Chartered Tax Advisor here. I’d assume he’s evading tax as tax evasion is huge in this country. And yes it is mainly people doing cash in hand jobs that drives it.

If you’re a shop taking cash you still ring the cash through the tills. This produces a till receipt that can be checked against declared takings by HMRC should they do a visit. This makes it harder to evade tax. If the dog walker asked to be paid by bank transfer then this creates a regular payment into that persons accounts which if HMRC were to take a look would look very much like payment for services. Cash creates no such paper trail.

One big source of evasion is takeaways, nail bars etc and Turkish barbers. They just don’t ring cash payments through a till, put the money to the side and don’t declare it.

So much faux naivety. These people paying cash in hand are 100% why we have terrible public services.

Any by the way, I’m pretty sure you’ll find Amazon are evading £0 tax.

If you know of big companies evading tax get on to HMRC. They’ll be keen to hear about it. But you don’t. Because they’re not.

you can get cash back in supermarkets.