Resident doctors what on earth ...

[Wellwhatnowbellaboo]

...are you playing at. A 28% increase Wes Street today said since they came into power. The BMA might be bullish but if you are a junior doctor give us your view please ? In any other professional job in industry you may have studied for years but you start at the bottom and you work your way up and money and progression comes over time.
I'd like to hear from actual resident doctors now they have their last day off.
And if you are not a doctor do you support this or not? Why?
I'm all for making things fairer for all but this is now a joke and putting people's lives at risk for more money is not the ethos I'd expect from health care

I would be arguing that those other careers should not be doing that either.

It's not a race to the bottom.

I'm a consultant and was covering for resident drs during the strike.

Typically surgical residents are more likely not to strike, as their experience depends on the number of surgical operations they do, so surgeons in training are not wanting to lose that operating time.

In medical specialties (for non-HCPs, this is doctors who treat issues that don't need operations) the number of residents striking are high.

The comment about lives at risk is disingenuous - the patients that came in during the strike saw heart/lung/diabetes/bowel specialists much earlier than they otherwise would have done - the normal process is that a resident dr sees the patient then they are seen by the medical consultant on call who may not be a specialist in their condition, but is qualified to manage it as a generalist, then gets referred to a specialist.

Most elective i.e. outpatient work was preserved.

Patients aren't dying because of the strike.

I don't think people realise the reality of the junior doctor training.

They have to change jobs every 6 months. Imagine 1 month to get to know what the job is, who works where, where the reporting lines are, who likes them to do what and when (as a former critical care nurse this was a really hard part of my job - one senior would expect x of you, then another would tell you off for doing x). A couple of months finding your feet and and establishing your practice. A couple of months feeling like perhaps you can do this, then it all starts again.

Junior doctors have competitive processes for training posts. They might well have finished a night shift, but if there is departmental training and they are on the rota, they have to come in anyway.

I was on my break one night and a new junior doctor came flying into the staff room. He was so stressed. He had sick patients in ICU, someone down in A&E to review, and someone over in another department to see. He had no idea what to do first.

Surgical trainees need theatre time, but if a patient is sick on the ward, needs prescriptions, needs review, they get pulled out.

I don't agree with the focus on money. But I'd support condition changes.

I looked. 3.5% minimum, some on higher. So higher than the UK average.

I was a UK trained NHS Doctor. I left the NHS and the UK two years ago. Morale was so low, situation was dire. At this stage 70% of my medial school friend group have left the NHS.
if the NHS wants to retain its UK Doctors it needs a serious shake-up.

Are these rotations new?

It is not just about pay. But about jobs. The pay I have less sympathy for. The jobs I do.

Many coming out of UK medical school cannot get placements or jobs. Because they have already been given by the NHS often to overseas peeps.

Some friends of ours whose daughter has qualified is having to look to Australia and Canada if she cannot get posted here.

Strangely the media largely ignores the jobs issue and focuses on the money aspect.

Ludicrous.

This is why. A 28% pay rise doesn't even scratch the surface of the pay erosion - banging those pots while they lost pay during COVID.

And as has been said, many don't have jobs at all. It also costs a lot to be a doctor (GMC, Indemnity, Royal college fees and extortionate exams) and they are forced to move every 6-12 months. No say in where you go. They are fed up and have the option to leave. So many are.

Want a doctor ? Then look after them better.

Agree that it’s obvious that the BMA have a real point of grievance on the jobs front. Why on earth do they keep insisting on throwing in an unjustified pay whine at the same time? It’s that that is blocking any progress on the terrible jobs situation. They’re total idiots.

Giving notice for annual and study leave is 6 weeks and may be refused if other people have got in there before you - standard T&Cs for everyone

Resident doctors are rotated between departments every 4/5 months. Roughly August to December, Jan to March and April to July.
They can't apply for leave until they start the rotation and can only book it within that rotation. So if you want annual leave in August you can't apply until 1st August because that's when the rotation starts no matter how important an event it's for.

IMO they need to sort out the conditions and working hours.
Increase pay does not create extra capacity nor deal with the doctors fleeing from a excessive workload.
To spend money on salary increases actually reduces budget for more doctors and expansion of provision.

One can't help but wonder that so many foreign doctors want to come here if the conditions are so bad.

The training issues and jobs going to overseas doctors need to be sorted out. If UK trained doctors are unemployed, medicine needs to come of the shortage occupation lists. Quite apart from the fact that when I'm ill, it doesn't matter how many publications the foreign doctor has if I have to keep asking them to repeat themselves because I can barely understand a word they are saying.

But they can afford to pay PAs/AHP more than doctors ? The money is there, but the government don't like fully qualified doctors as much as non doctors.

This has been sorted - about 4 weeks ago. UKGrads now get priority for jobs. But the backlog is so huge that it will take many years for all UK trained staff to get the job they want (either training or not).

Exactly. That's why they deserve a decent salary.

They still deserve a salary in line with their responsibilities - and one that will continue to attract the best students, else they'll just look at careers that pay way better without the life or death aspect.

I propose more doctors instead of same number of doctors just better paid and overworked.....

Define 'decent' salary?
Are you also suggesting that currently all public employed folk are a bit shit because we pay them less than you would have them earn?

Yes, they could all become solicitors and accountants, the vast majority of whom are on £45k to £60k outside London. Similarly they could become investment bankers but again, for the vast majority the big bucks are paid for a limited time.

I agree, they should not have to take on massive student loans but if that is changed, there must be a commitment and evidwnce that they have worked full-time in the UK NHS for ten years or equivalent if part-time. Exactly the same should prevail for nurses and teachers but that is always met with horror and disdain.

Ditto. I know 3 doctors and none of them would recommend anyone become a doctor.

I work in a hospital and I was told by one of the junior doctors that legally they are not allowed to strike over anything other than pay. So whilst it’s being reported that the strike is over pay it isn’t. Most of the consultants I work with support the strike even though they’re having to step in and fill the gap.

Wasn't it Labour who abolished accomodation for Junior Drs in 2008?

That isn't the BMA's mantra is it though?

I support anyone who feels the need to strike.

@TooBored1the salaries offered are a vast improvement on what they were before the election. If they want all the improvements in training places, fee forgiveness, exam fees and possibly accommodation why won’t they take what’s on offer and let the negotiations continue on those. Where will the money come from for everything they are asking for? It’s no good saying they deserve it. Lots of people deserve more money but there’s a finite pot. The offer on the table looks good to most people. Take it and move on to the other issues. Refusing to even start to negotiate on all the T&C until an exorbitant salary rise is struck will get them nowhere. There isn’t the money