To think you can’t save if you simply don’t earn enough?

[MyAmberBird]

A lot of advice around saving focuses on habits and discipline but it feels like that only goes so far. If someone doesn’t earn enough to cover their basic living costs with anything left over, then realistically there’s nothing to save.

AIBU to think income is the limiting factor here? I don’t think habits play as big a role as people like to think.

Earn more, spend less.

Absolutely this. And Daniel Markowitz"s points on meritocracy in his speech to the Oxford union are well worth a listen.

Of course there are lots of people blowing £££ on expensive phones. Some can easily afford them, others can’t.

But it sounds like you’re judging anyone who is skint as having an expensive phone. I know lots of struggling people who already have an old phone and a £7 a month SIM. Generally, people who are on the bones of their arses have already made these obvious changes, and there’s nothing left to cut.

So they’ve got the crap phone and they STILL can’t save anything.

Why we dont teach finances in schools I dont know

They do though, ‘Personal Finances’ has been part of the national curriculum for 11-16 year olds in England since 2014; the main issue from my own first hand experience though is that children DO NOT CARE as it’s just abstract concepts to them at that point. I think what would be more impactful is parents implementing real life applications of how money works within the home.

Beyond that though, all finances are is maths and all the basic tools needed are covered by the arithmetic leant such as operations, percentages, fractions, decimals, algebra etc. In GCSE maths, things such as compound interest, AERs, APRs are all specifically covered too.

My SIL works at a food bank. If this subject comes up her comment is always' people have different priorities '. The clients are offered budgeting advice. They have to write down exactly what they spend money on each month and how much. Then they have to take that list and make a second list of the things that are an absolute priority. Streaming services, phone contract, nails, nights out, coffee everyday on the way to work are considered 100% essential by the vast majority. That's why they can't save .

Check check and double check your direct debits!!!!

I earn well so do save most months unless we have something extra going out - car repairs, school trips, kids clothing etc - but I am forever checking where I can cut back to max my savings. I have a savings account where you get an extra interest payment if you don’t withdraw BUT I do sometimes ‘chance’ adding savings in with a view that I can transfer back if I need to. Means I only transfer back exactly what I need.

Just this week though I discovered a subscription for a gaming pass my kids had subscribed to for £8.50 a month. I had no idea and because it had been a small amount I’d not really noticed it going out each month. 5 years though!!!

Phones - highly recommend Lebara contracts. They use Vodafone network but I’m paying £9 a month for 50GB whereas this was more than double with Vodafone. Also - with your current network provider, if you threaten to leave they will come back with a retention offer. Vodafone went down from £21 a month to £11 a month to try to keep my business. I still went with the Lebara though and Vodafone have kept their offer in place of £11 if I choose to go back.

There isn't a definition of "basic living costs".
There is a point at which you are in poverty and are really not going to be able to save anything.

But most people who claim they can't save are above that threshold but have made choices about their "basic living costs".
They've chosen to live in a more expensive area or in a bigger house than they need, or to run two cars when they could get by with one, or to pay for a more expensive mobile phone (for example). And then they get used to that lifestyle, so they assume that is the "minimum" they need. And changing these sorts of things is more difficult than turning the thermostat down or shopping at Aldi, but will make the biggest difference.

People who save have generally made conscious decisions to minimise expenditure when making hard-to-change choices. Which is why we see on threads that someone is struggling on £100K while their near neighbour manages just fine on £35K.

I agree what's life without a couple joys even if it is deemed as "unnecessary". There are some things I'd rather have than the extra £10 in the bank for example.

The alternative is joining the library
Books, podcasts and magazines available
Mine does the latest months magazines online for free

Its not about going without, its about what you can afford

Well, my post isn't talking about what you can afford. It's the value of going without something inexpensive that makes you happy and you have the money for versus £120 in the bank at the end of the year.

The library isn't free because it costs time, fuel and town centre parking. I don't want to carry a paper book with me either - our library lets you borrow eBooks but only on a phone as a PDF which I don't like. I prefer an e-reader before bed.

Library is online, you dont need to go into town andd via kindle or tablet
I was talking in the general terms of the thread btw I dont actually know you 😂

What I mean is there is an alternative to most things that people value which also allows you to save
Subscription vs library £10
Coffee made at home £3.75 × 5 = 18.75 ( monthly £75)

Thats 2 very simple savings,fair enough if you dont want to, thats not the issue, you can spend as you wish of course
The point is thats a quick saving on stuff people see as everyday spending whilst still having coffee and enjoying reading
£85 x 12 = £1020
1K is considered the emergency fund you need to keep out of debt

You've missed out a chunk of information in your planning there and made a big assumption.

When we were on the breadline it was the cheapest tea nd coffee, the equivalent now is below.

£1.65 for 160 tea bags in Sainsburys, £2.30 for 200g (40 cups).

This was what the budget allowed, the same budget that gave us a plus of £10 at the end of each year. Telling me to switch would have made me laugh in your face.

My kids all had library cards when they were 6 months old and we spent many hours visiting free museums so again nothing to switch.

Again believe it or not Im not talking about you personally
Its not rocket science that if you dont buy coffees out you cant switch , so no need to laugh in my face 🙄
Its just a general example of tiny savings adding up

Yeah, we all know that though. It doesn't change that some small costs make life more enjoyable and are therefore more valuable to some than the relatively small amount you'd save. I don't think a Kindle or Spotify or Runna subscription is everyday spending. Or my £12.50 a month cinema pass. That's the point.

I'm not even going to touch the mention of coffee, we hashed that all out last week on here.

This is what annoys me, the assumption that everyone who isn’t saving is pissing it up the wall. I’d wager I have more in savings, assets and pension than the most miserly skinflint on this thread and that’s because I earn well and I don’t take the piss out of myself by spending it all. But I can still afford coffees, a new phone, haircuts and all the other stuff bandied about on here as the height of financial incontinence and that’s because I earn a good wage. I’d always advocate trying to earn more money over cutting to the bone because I see in my own life the difference it has made. I’m not saying it’s easy but I’d rather people are feeling optimistic and trying to better their financial situation than being told they’re wasteful scroungers because they have the odd Greggs or have the audacity to buy a book instead of using the bloody library.

You are the only one who is calling people wasteful scroungers

Im no skinflint either and save well whilst fully enjoying life, no mortgage, own several properties, savings, investments

But my life hasnt always been like this
Ive lived on peanuts during a spectacularly difficult period of my life, no fun but it taught me so much.
What I learned was many people arent wasteful deliberately they just dont understand how to save until its too late.
They dont understand the importance and just how quickly life can change , for better or worse.
There is something odd about encouraging others to spend not save and stabilise their finances
There seems to be an idea that "someone needs to do something"
No one is coming ...

Would you mind sharing the name of this saving account please? Who’s it with? I like the sound of it

Saving is a skill. I think most people expect savings to be something ’given’ to them, facilitated in some way by external factors.
It is not. It’s not like: oh well, I have spare money, don’t really know what to do about that, I know, I’ll put it into savings!

I used to think like that. I don’t know, in my mind it was like something you get at some point when all the stars are aligned.

Shopping at Lidl and putting another jumper on is not saving.

I said this before on mn, my first goal was £5,000, so I can leave my marriage. Don’t ask me why £5,000, probably because it seemed like a giant fucking pie in the sky at the time.

My answer is: extra shifts. I’m in a job where I can pick extra shifts. I have worked 6 days a week, 12h shifts for years.
I started with a FD regular saver, I think in those days you could put in £200/month, I remember calculating how many shifts do I need to do, take the tax and NI out of it, to give me clean £200 extra a month. And because it was a regular saver, I needed to make sure I have it in my account on payday.
And I snowballed from there. I opened a NatWest regular saver, £150/month, just for a cushion, like car service, boiler, life. And I kept at it for years, with dips, till I got £5,000 in that account, it pays 6.35% interest, at £5,000 the interest in a month is around £20. I named it: I can sleep at night.

It’s not just a question of discipline, being savvy, lucky, austere. It takes hard work and a clear aim.
Of course there are millions of variables, poor health, small children, not knowing, 0 hours contracts etc. But if I did it, anyone can.

Some people genuinely cannot save due to expenses vs income.

And some could if they budgetted better. My aunt and uncle earn similar to my mum and dad, no children at home, mortgage paid off, run 1 car etc. But they are forever getting into debt, and coming to my parents to bail them out whenever an unexpected expense comes their way. My mum has now said enough is enough as they haven't paid back the last 2 'loans', and then she has my auntie ringing up begging and then shouting.

A family I work with got evicted for non payment of rent, and went to the council to rehouse them - which they had to dueto 2 of the 7 children having high medical needs. But have expensive clothes, car, holidays etc. And the Dad sends money from their benefits to his 2nd family abroad.

But I have friends who are single mums who budget very carefully, never ask for any help, and put themselves through training such ad OU degrees to improve their earnings. And friends who earn huge amounts but will constantly say they are broke. I was brought up to believe that any debt apart from a mortgage is bad debt, going out was frivolous, spendthrift etc. DH was brought up shuffling expenses round on credit cards with parents who enjoyed their lives immensely, out all the time. So we have had to find a middle ground where we make sensible financial decisions for our family but still enjoy ourselves. I think lots comes from people's upbringings and attitudes to money

I have an atom savings account that gives a better interest rate in months you dont make any withdrawals

Thank you for this. I’ve had a look and quite like the look of the account, so will be opening too