School as child care

[Differentforgirls]

From another thread.

A poster said that state schools are there for helping parents to work. Therefore teachers are childminders. Teachers!

I think schools are there to educate our children and, though the staff go above and beyond these days, that is their primary function.

AIBU?

My daughter has had a few minor injuries at school which have required a plaster or ice pack. Should the school have called me to administer these because it would be outside their remit to do it themselves?

Tbf, I went off on a bit of a tangent there. The reality is though, you can’t separate education from childcare and it being used as such. I don’t see what OP is trying to achieve . Kids are out of the house for x amount of hours, how parents use those hours is up to them.

I'm not even sure if the OP knows what point she is trying to make. Her posts are all just one mass of contradictions.

She said she didn't view as childcare yet she evidently worked and her children were at school while she worked so I'm not sure what argument she is trying to make.

I think that she prides herself on never having used childcare, so school “doesn’t count” in her head. She was obviously extremely part-time, certainly by modern standards.

I think there's a difference between childcare as in they are under the supervision of an adult between 8.30-3.30 or whatever, for the purposes of education only and the concept that schools should also be places where children learn life skills that are not academic and more properly are the remit of parents.

Additionally, there is the problem.of actual childcare outside of those hours for younger children who have working parents. In my view that would ideally be provided in a more homelike environment with a childminder in the primary years at least but if at school, should be a separate facility or staff to the teaching staff.

Is it, perhaps, in response to parents who kick off when schools close for inset days/ floods/trees falling/ snow/holidays, because they won't have any childcare? Because they've come to rely on school providing it?

Is that the point being made? That the childcare element is a by product, but not the sole reason schools exist? Because so often when the 'schools need fewer holidays' argument comes up, it tends to be largely because people can't do the childcare element, not because they think children should be learning more.

This is what I am baffled by. OP says she was a working mother and school enabled her to work, but also suggsts that women that do this aren't good parents as she believes those DC have been left to be raised by someone else. She also seemed offended by the suggestion that she was a SAHM before she clarified she worked. So what does she believe is the magic formula to working whilst raising DC?

By the way, those who are trying to equate being a working parent to a neglectful parent who expects the school to pick up their parenting job, what is your evidence? Please show me the research which shows that parents who work full time raise less well behaved children with fewer life skills and lower educational standards.

I’m very much enjoying being accused of not valuing education… I have only got three degrees, and haven’t done one for ages so you are probably right.

Tbf, I get where they’re coming from in your first paragraph. In fact, plenty of school staff have the same conversations/moans when it happens to them. I think it’s quite a natural (rightly or wrongly) reaction of a working parent.

I think perhaps she’s one of those people who think that the exact way they did it, is the only way and the correct way? Rather narrow-minded but you see it a lot on MN.

You know something can be two things at once, right?

I mean, when I used to take my kids to the library it was mainly for their benefit, but I got to have a bit of quiet time with a coffee when they were in their little reading session. Win-win.

Equally kids go to school to be educated, but it also means I can do my job, which pays the mortgage and contributes towards society. Win-win.

The fact that in some posters eyes this makes me not value education or (fucking hilariously) negligent as a parent is Nigel Farage levels of fucking stupid.

Yes I think this is where the nuance is. Unavoidable shit happens, especially with creaking buildings, exposure to lots of germs and when you underpay and undervalue your workforce meaning they exercise their right to strike, but there's no point just barking "school isn't childcare" when people are stressed about unexpected closures, and querying whether they're really necessary for a drop of snow or whatever because of course people rely on schools as childcare as well as valuing them for provision of education. Obviously people shouldn't be taking their frustrations out on individual teachers, but the fact parents and employers get grumpy at the disruption likely makes tea her strikes more effective than they'd otherwise be and being mindful of disruption surely should be part of the decision about whether to close.

We are not childminders though many think we are! Surely we could charge per kid a lot more and it would be reflected in our wages ( t.a here) we are to educate but parents do see it as free childcare especially if we call as their child is ill

If I'm right in saying, the OP seems to be saying that parents shouldn't use any childcare at all, should work round school hours and this should all be thought out and in place before you have kids. So basically the old clichés that are used to best working parents with.

The thing is having children now normally takes two incomes and the standard working day is 9-5, Monday to Friday. There are many jobs such as nursing, social work and teaching that run to their times too. And many of them have huge amount of working mums.

I am glad though the OP does place value on a being a teacher. It's a hard and skilled and valuable job. My mum was one for decades. She wouldn't have been able to have done it without childcare in place outwith school hours. Funnily, I was always quite clear my parents were raising me and never felt any differently.

What's the OPs view on teachers using childcare? My mum couldn't have taught without childcare and also without us being in school to allow her to work. Should teachers have to spend 18 years out the profession once they have kids if school can't be used as childcare? Who would we have to fill all these places?

Are parents now meant to pay for their kids to go to school? Most parents have had a phone call at some point with their child being ill. It doesn't mean they've absolved themselves of their parental duties. Funnily enough many children can seem totally well in a morning and then go downhill once they are in school.

So parents who don't immediately come and get ill kids from school is obviously not ok.

But... having said that, paid childcare has exactly the same requirement that ill children are collected, so that's actually not a valid argument to make. Parents understand the deal here, or at least most of them do.

Who are all these parents (aside from the obviously neglectful ones) who don't think they are responsible for their children outside school hours? I must have the news that we have hoardes of children just left in school in evenings and weekends because parents don't want responsibility for them and think school somehow is.

It seems quite insulting to think that parents somehow can't grasp their own responsibilities to their children. School has a start and end time so either children are at home before and after this or they are in childcare which a parent will have arranged and paid for as part of their responsibility as parents to ensure their children is suitably looked after and cared for when they work.

As you mentioned going to school is compulsory. How can you take it for granted then? And what are parents meant to do if they aren't working or taking time for themselves while their child is at school?

I’ve always been to get my child if they are ill or have been hurt, not within 5 minutes because it would obviously be ridiculous for me to just sit at home all day, everyday waiting and being available just in case, once in a blue moon I get a call. I work so it takes 30-60 minutes to get there.

Presumably people who don’t work may also be out of the house when a call comes through and may not be immediately available?

The vast majority of parents don’t see school as somewhere to just keep their child out of the house for a few hours everyday, we parent our children outside of school hours, reinforce eduction and behavioural expectations, teach our children morals, ethics, good social practices etc but the simple fact is that between the hours of 9 and 3.30 term time week days our children are being cared for by the staff and teachers at school.

There are an increasing number of parents asking "what am I supposed to do with my children during the school holidays when I have to work?" as though they had children without realising there was no school for six weeks in the summer.
And an increase in parents who want the stsndard school day to be extended to cover the working day.

Perhaps those parents thought that the government couldn't possibly allow such a ridiculous situation as two working parents' full annual leave allowances still not covering the number of days kids have off school? To me that is the definition of Wednesbury unreasonableness, but YMMV!

I do think people are very unwilling to countenance holiday clubs, after school clubs, wrap around care in general. I know kids can be pitas about this stuff but when mine were smaller and I had no choice they just had to go, and generally they got quite a lot out of it and even when they didn't, so what really? Kids need to learn not everything is about them and their wants. And the cost was still vastly less than when they were at nursery (pre 30 free hours). I would be in favour of shorter school holidays or at least a shorter summer holiday balanced with more frequent weeks off throughout the year but not because I think it can only be school that provides childcare in the holidays, more because it is a weirdly unbalanced year in general and being out of routine and learning for so long doesn't suit my kids, or me.

Maybe some of these parents had options such as grandparent support or there was more out of school provision when they planned to have children that are now longer available to them.Even in the four years I've been a parent have seen after school clubs closed and less holiday clubs available. Maybe people planned to stay at home but for whatever have wanted to or had to return to work. Circumstances change.

The thing is most families require two parents to work and not even that, women who want to work should be encouraged and supported to do so. We'd have an economic crisis if all mums had to spend 18 years out the work place.

And the other reality is the standard working day is 9-5 which is longer than the school day. I absolutely don't think we should be pressuring anyone to have children but we do need people to have children for the next generation of tax payers and surely its in everyone's best interests that parents that need to work are supported rather than just demonising parents that have to work as shirking their responsibilities and making life harder for them.

I see threads on here asking for advice on childcare, I don't see parents blaming schools for not providing it. I personally feel from a developmental POV my children gain a lot from their holiday clubs. Often there is noone from their class there, so they make new friends. They are pushed out of their comfort zone. When they move up to secondary both will have lots of friends from the local town that went to different schools. One is at a football camp improving his skills and loving it. The other is back at her old nursery where they run a small holiday club crafting, playing outside with her friends and visiting the local care home. Yes plenty of DC gain alot from being at home but I also see alot of children on my street that haven't seen the light of day in the last fortnight (and yes some of their parents are teachers). I also see young adults in the work place that do not have the stamina to be there until 5pm. When did modelling a healthy work ethic become bad parenting?

I teach secondary.

Your assumption is interesting.