School as child care

[Differentforgirls]

From another thread.

A poster said that state schools are there for helping parents to work. Therefore teachers are childminders. Teachers!

I think schools are there to educate our children and, though the staff go above and beyond these days, that is their primary function.

AIBU?

Can you not see how posters would come to these conclusions based on your statements? For example you have made a generalisation that working mothers are bad parents. Therefore it seems easy to make the assumption that you were not a working mother. You've stated you feel this way as your DC is a teacher. That would lead posters to believe your DC is struggling providing childcare for primary aged children? Maybe if you responded with your own experiences rather than abusing posters you would get a more open discussion.

Their purpose is education with the child at the centre.

The by product is that they are not at home for the hours they're in school so parents can work then. They don't exist FOR childcare.

Wasn’t disagreeing with that at all! So both the childminder and teacher are in loco parentis but that doesn’t mean the teacher is doing the work of a childminder it means they’re making decisions/judgements for the child that the parent would be making if the parent were there

I'm so confused. I am expected by the Government to send my child to school. If I attempted to stay on site and provide supervision of my child I would, in fact, be escorted off the premises and safeguarding concerns would be raised.

I expect to work with the school and reinforce behavioural requirements. However, I cannot change the fact that at 11 (and for their previous years of education) my child is... a child. They are, in fact, not meant to be left without supervision for 6 hours and so the adults I am legally required to entrust them to are in fact responsible for their safety and well-being during the day. Because I physically cannot be there. Not because I'm treating it as childcare but because I am not welcome.

I fully understand that some of the behaviour teachers are expected to manage is shocking. My children struggle to learn because of it (and regularly get house points for excellent behaviour in chaotic circumstances). I think being a teacher is my idea of hell. So I think there are some big questions around what support should be provided to manage disruptive behaviour, but I don't see how school is not childcare.

And like with many other responses here you completely avoided my main point that education and childcare are not mutually exclusive.

Lets not diminish the work that goes into a EY practitioner from how I recall it you used the word degree not others.

You claim you have worked 43 years in this area. Yet your tone towards "childcare" is very put down in your responses as are your comments to anyone who doesnt agree with your stance that teachers do not provide childcare.

Read the OP.

Thanks to all who read and understood my OP. It’s like trying to catch smoke on here sometimes.

This is such an odd comment. Parents bring up our own children. While children are in the care of others, those others are providing some level of care for that child.

While my child is on school premises and during the school day his teachers are responsible for his learning. There are classroom assistants (not as many as there should be) to assist children who struggle to learn and help keep the class on track. There is the senior management team, the sen support team, the school nurse, the janitor etc etc all of whole come together to make up the school being responsible for the child during school hours. It very much IS childcare in that respect. Kids are not allowed to just wander out of school unsupervised are they? Because the school is responsible for their care. The level of care required changes in an age appropriate way but the overall school system is responsible for childcare during school hours.

If a child is off school for holiday or illness and you leave them home alone, thinking of my 8 yr old, unsupervised that wouldn't be ok because they wouldn't have age appropriate childcare. Yet leaving them in school is ok because the school provides anage appropriate level of care.

Why is this controversial?

Has it ever occurred to you that if people are struggling to grasp the point you are communicating you either don't have a well defined point or are not communicating your point well?

Because they are minding the child. Similar to what a child minder would do. In an age appropriate way. Although I'd say it's a shared responsibility in the school to provide care while a childminder is a 1 person child are system.

I dropped back to see if OP has made a point / decided what her point is yet but I’m saddened but not surprised to see she is still yet to do so.

Is this your point? Your son has a degree so is too important to be considered ''childcare"?

She has certainly demonstrated why education is important.

Urgh, this old chestnut. An argument that was rife during Covid with mostly sexist undertones and parroted mostly by women. Truly wonderful times.

School’s primary focus is education. I think the OP’s issue is more parenting. Parenting at home has become more slack and teachers have to pick up the pieces and deal with the results of pushover parents and kids spending evenings on devices.

However my DD being at school enables both myself and DH to work. School cares for DD in the sense that she is their responsibility for 6 hours but all other aspects of her life including her attitude, behaviour and needs are governed by us. If she kicks off at a teacher I would never consider the matter resolved at school, there would be consequences at home as is my responsibility. Same with attitude to work. It’s our responsibility to ensure she has a good work attitude and any learning issues are addressed. Think that distinction is what OP means.

Factor in that the economy needs two parents to work. School is in everyone’s interests.

Maybe OP has a list in her head of ‘things a teacher should not be doing’. I do too but none of the things on my list are jobs for a childcare worker.

Things like ensuring kids are dressed appropriately, know not to kick the hell out of other kids and are toilet trained - they are the responsibility of social workers working with parents to try to get them to parent their child, not childcare staff. The minute either teachers or childcare staff are changing the nappies of 4year olds is the moment we throw the towel in on trying to get parents to parent. And we should never admit defeat.

I did read the op. Did you read my post fully.

But IS she talking about that? She seems to be referring to her son as a teacher of 14 yr olds so doesn't make sense.

Also schools absolutely do have a responsibility to help kids with behaviour and socialisation. It's one of the reason schools exist rather than home tutors, schools came around as we know them as part of industrialization and getting people ready for the workplace. They are institutions of care and learning in more than an academic way. Or why would they have a school nurse for example?

Perhaps what op means is TEACHERS are not primarily childcare and that I'd agree with but the overall institution of 'school' is more than the teacher and more than just education and is part of a larger social construct. So both my children have emergency medications kept at school, without a school nurse and specific teaching assistants these couldn't be kept in school and my children couldn't safely attend but children with health conditions are also entitled to an education.

Similarly children with SEN and even just children with shit parents are entitled to an education, it's an actual human right of a child, therefore the provision of the surrounding care is also the responsibility of the education system in order for it to provide it's purpose.

Trying to say school should be purely academic would exclude so much and so many from school.

There is care as part of the school system, it provides childcare as part of its social structure

People who want to whine that parents should be, I'm not even sure what, providing round the clock supervision even within schools? Attending school with their children? Standing outside with emergency meds thatay need administered in the event of an asthma attack, anaphylactic shock or seizure?

Too personal. This thread has shown how some people have no filters.

Thank you 😊

What are you on about? How is it too personal to ask if your point is that teachers specifically shouldn't be referred to as childcare workers? That doesn't take away from the fact that one of the functions of the school system is to provide care of children.

Yes.

You decided to slag off my son. You do you though. This is my final reply to you. Froth away.

I’m quite impressed by the OP. 40 years experience (allegedly) working with children and she hasn’t learned how to communicate clearly or take on board different opinions.

I did read your OP and all your other posts.

Your OP said someone considered school as childcare - not teachers as baby sitters.

You are ignoring the point that the school system has deliberately been developed in the way it is now to be BOTH education and childcare so that parents can work.

If school was purely about education it wouldn’t need to mirror the average working week of Mon-Fri, and almost 9-5.

That takes nothing away from the important role teachers play within the school system - but basic capitalism dictates that the system fits into the working world first before it takes educational considerations first.

Of course it is. Society need people (parents) to work and also needs children to be educated, looked after and safe (school). Its a win win. I see school for education but also as a safe space for my children to be so I can work.
Yes we have children to parent them and part of that means meeting their financial needs and modelling what it is to contribute to society by working.
Teachers teach but also nuture and look after children. I dont know why you get offended by that. Why is it wrong to see school as education and child care.