...in being insanely proud of my daughter, but very cross with her sexist school and teachers

[duchesse]

DD at year 8 sports day.

Approaches (male) teacher in charge of 1500m race to ask if it is OK for her to enter even though all the other contestant are boys.

"Well, yes you can, but since all the others are boys, you'll probably come last, so just do your best and try to enter some girls' events as well so you don't get too discouraged."*

DD wins 1500m race.

*Some slight paraphrasing may have taken place, but that's the gist of what DD reported to me -AAAAARGH!!! Sexist pig!

I only know the time differences for swimming duchesse, but I imagine athletics would be similar (percentage wise). At 13 the differences between the sexes are beginning to show but are not yet huge. I agree that general fitness and aptitude for running is the more important factor.

In swimming a 400m freestyle race would most closely correlate to a 1500m running race and the differences between boys and girls at different ages for this are as follows:

11 year olds: Girls faster by 3 secs
12 year olds: Boys faster by 4 secs
13 year olds: (yr 8's) Boys faster by 7 secs
14 year olds: Boys faster by 22 secs

This is for good club level swimmers - at higher levels (district and national) the trend is the same.

bubblagirl on Thu 19-Jun-08 08:42:24
"physically known for boys to be faster than girls

no different to people saying boys are slower than girls academically mothers of girls think this is acceptable to say"

Right, so if you had a gifted ds would you be ok with your ds's teacher to tell him not to aim for 10 GCSE's because he's a boy and it's known for boys to be slower academically than girls? The point is that teachers have no business encouraging people to have low expectations; his job is to treat them as individuals and push everybody to do the best they can.

There is a vast difference between "people" talking in general terms about gender differences and a teacher telling individual children that they must conform to these gender lines.

Statistically, men are more successful in business than women- so perhaps you would like to go and tell Xenia that she has no chance of succeeding in a business career, something about the way her brain is wired (evil cackle)?

At school in the 80s my sister's head of year told her not to bother trying to be a vet but to try to become a vet nurse instead as more manageable for girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess what she is now? .

Ripeberry- that happened to me, mid 80s- I wanted to do technical drawing O level and was told I had to choose either Domestic Science or Needlework instead.....

Well done your dd. I am sure she had the energy left to flick him a v sign, for victory of course.
I hope you can get to the bottom of what was said and how it was said, but she sounds like a great middle-distance runner in the making

moopdaloop - as regards running I dispute that up to a certain age.

I was a teenage athlete - competing at national level etc, and until I was 14 I regularly beat boys of the same age. Once puberty causes boys to fill out and muscle up, thier increased muscle power adds to the simple 'how fast can you put one leg in front of the other and keep it going' equation, and they start (in general) beating girls. Even then an athletic girl, or one in training, will beat many boys of average athletic ability. The image of femininity has given us a weedy view of girls, I think.

At 14 i was actually told off by the coach of the county boys athletics team for accepting a 400m challenge (not my event) from a boy, and beating him. I was told that it was unfair and bad for boys morale to be beaten by girls.

Duchesse - I am delighted that your girl had this example that even when told she wouldn't win she did - better perhaps, as a lesson, than encouragement!

But still shocked at the teacher - in this day and age.

Blu- that attitude is rather what transpires from the way girls are dealt with at her school. We sent her to the same school as her brother because we wanted to educate our children in a mixed environment, but the school isn't really mixed yet. It's more like a boys' school with girls in it. Daughter 2 is going to go to the high-achieving girls' school (her choice).

I would also be cross. If she is in year 8, no doubt she has some understanding of the physiological differences between boys and girls so I doubt needs it pointing out.

She is now the fastest 13 year old in the school. That's fab

Bucharest - I had that too when I wanted to do what was then called "Computer Studies". Was told to do typewriting. Got my own way in the end though, and still work in IT now!

Duchesse, I don't think you need to say anything to the head about this particular incident, although I can tell that it is perhaps one of many and you are getting to the end of your tether.

Actions speak far louder than words and your DD has just spoken. Very loudly!!! (And good on her.)

Duchesse your DD's school sounds like the school of which DS is in the pre-prep - v. sporty, but the girls sports have to take a (poor) second place to the boys on use of facilities, teacher focus, etc, etc.

This is why he won't be staying!

Good for your DD - personally, my headmistress telling me I couldn't do/achieve things was my biggest and best spur to do them - to spite her - we got on so well

hahahahaha at your daughter winning

I hope you have taught her how to say "... AND FECK YOU!"

ok maybe not just yet

"in general boys are quicker, stronger and faster than girls - this is not sexism, this is biological fact"

major congratulations to your daughter but boys do tend to be stronger and as a result faster

On the other if he had made a comment like this about something academic, where despite girls having a slight advantage the gender differences are not so pronounced, then I would be raging

Good on your DD. Lovely story - well, apart from the blatant sexism bit.

aaaaaaaargh!

You see - even when you try and explain that at yr 8 a girl could well have the same physical prowess as a boy at that age people still fail to take it on board. The teacher in question wasn't looking at 'girls in general' - he had Duchesses sporty dd in front of him.

FGS even at 18 a sporty, in-training girl will be likely to beat a couch potato boy.

The deep entrenchment of views on women's physical abilities are not easily shaken!

You go Duchesse. Wonder where she gets her feist and self confidence??

Serioulsy, it is good for her to see you stand up and say "excuse me, this is not acceptable."

Personally, I would take her PE shirt and have it silk screened with the words "1500 m school champion". It would positively reward her for her achievment while at the same time getting your message across to whole lot more people than sitting in the headmasters office will do. A very in-you-face approach, but not terribly negative so as to put the (stupid) teacher on the defensive.

This reminds me of a running t-shirt I used to have. It said on the back "Yeah I'm a girl but I'm ahead of you"

BTW, I would win if DH challenged me to a long distance race. (He could walk further for longer but I would win a running race)

just out of interest were the boys who won their events etc allowed to enter into the girls events in a bid to get more medals?

because if they weren't then surely every boy in the school should cry foul for having been subjected to sexism if a girl can enter a boys event but they are not allowed to enter girls events

YANBU. Complain!! What would have happened if your daughter had NOT been the self confident child she is? She might have not run and yet another prejudice would have been confirmed and a potentially promising atheletic career cut short before it started.

The physical differences between men and women are more marked over shorter distances. So a typical man would run 100m faster than a typical woman. As the distance increases, the differences get less marked. At ultra-marathon level (50/100 miles +) they actually think women have an advantage over men due to the composition of their bodies.

She showed him!

Have inquired and apparently he congratulated her in a very lukewarm way.