AIBU to question pronouns and gender options on a job application?

[Felinefoster]

I have just attempted to fill out an online job application which asked for my pronouns (5 options) and gave me six options for my gender. These questions were optional but the application did not ask me for my sex.
It’s made think how none of these questions even make sense.

I am a woman because of my biology, nothing more nothing less. What does it mean living as a woman and using female pronouns if you are not female. I can’t think of any other question an employer would ask that has no definition.

AIBU to think that the phrase living as a woman should actually read living as a stereotype of a woman through a male lens. And visa versa. And these questions have no place on job applications.

If employers are looking for diversity they should also ask applicants their biological sex because women are still underpaid and under represented in many/most well paid industries. They should be using this accurate data to ensure fairness.

Nonsense. You tick "prefer not to say" and move on to the rest of your application.

Given there was no box for it, nor an option to state it, it wouldn’t be on a job application. Also, because it was ridiculously exaggerated red herring.

They have just invented a person to be annoyed at.

Yes they are. They are expecting employers and colleagues to jump through hoops. It's a power play, seeing what they can get away with.

He thought he was making such a good point too.

Although, I’m thinking “high empress ot the universe” might be my new title.

What hoops?

If you find using a pronoun “jumping through hoops” I’d have you down as a nightmare employee. How on earth do you function if that’s so difficult for you?

What a power play.

For the gender identity questions I always tick ‘other’ and write “I do not have a ‘gender identity’ but for data gathering purposes, my sex is female.”

I’d probably put “I/Me/Mine” for pronouns if I could free text it, otherwise leave blank!

This is when I am completing questionnaires though. Although I’d probably do the same for job application forms these days too.

Why is that a 'ridiculously exaggerated red herring' yet being expected to refer to a man as 'she/her' not?

Because one is a protected characteristic if the person is trans, and the other is not.

Because one is a thing that some people actually choose and the other is a fantasy in your own mind.

Simple answer - if you don’t like how the application works then don’t apply for a job there.

Power play? Are you sure you know what that phrase means?

Missed a 🤣 off this one.

I knle who the problem employee would be and it certainly wouldn't be me. Pronouns are a function of the English language and are used for accurate communication. Forced misuse renders communication impossible. If a customer needs a specific employee, telling them to speak to xi/xir over there isn't getting them anywhere. This is what you get when people are told to bring their whole self to work instead of only their professional self.

There is no protected characteristic of 'being trans'. The protected characteristic is undergoing transition, that's about avoiding discrimination and has absolutely zero to do with pronouns.

People choose all sorts of fantasy things, it doesn't mean we pay any attention to them

You can always point.

I voted Yabu because although I find these questions annoying too, I just tick “prefer not to say” and move on with my life, without needing to perform it on MN.

Perhaps you don't have the mindset they want.

You'd have very few jobs to apply for, most ask for voluntary completion of diversity information. You can decline but to reject any company that even asks would leave you slim pickings in my experience.

Ve/Ver/Vis
Zie/Hir/Hirs
He/Him/His
She/Her/hers
They/Them/Their

That’s not very inclusive

But that would be a lie.

I don’t prefer not to say I just don’t have a gender identity

If it's all about the equalities data gathering, then that form should be entirely separate to the application form and so how would anyone know if you had selected special pronouns to dictate how others refer to you?

But if it is on the application form, then completing it in any way (including "prefer not to say" indicates you subscribe to that ideology. And as we know (Forstater), not believing in that ideology is itself a protected belief so that question should not be on there in that form.

Hi @Felinefoster I’m also job hunting after leading a team of 20+ people until a few months ago. A few things come to mind.

• When the company was reporting on sex pay gap and other DEI initiatives, they explicitly stated it was difficult to develop policies and take action for specific employees without having the data. Having optional criteria like sex, gender, disability, race etc. etc. can hamper companies understanding their employee base via data and acting accordingly. I understand and appreciate that.
• HOWEVER! I am sick of seeing multiple “genders” to pick from and not sex, and pronouns 🙄 so yes, OP, it’s annoying and counter productive when it comes to sex pay gap, promotion etc. measurement because allowing anyone to opt in to “gender = women” skews the data. I bristle when I see emails from recruiters with pronouns. One a couple of weeks ago had an entire paragraph about pronouns and their "inclusivity" as a company. I now take extra time to look at their careers pages and 'culture' to see what type of company it's likely to be...
• Yesterday, I was browsing LinkedIn for jobs and one, in the headline title, was “XYZ job – ALL GENDERS WELCOME”. WTF and why?!!

While I’m not going to spend time contacting every company for every job I apply for (see #2 and #3 above) about their criteria for job applicants (which is essentially, data collection), I will and have challenged terrible policies and data collection at the companies I’ve worked for once there (most recently: terrible menopause policy and communications to include “all genders”. I won the argument and all policies and communications were properly updated for 10+ employees).

In short, I feel you and agree. Is this the best use of your time imo? No. Is it the best use of your time to fight the battle once you've got a job somewhere? Yes! I've had a few surprising victories in the last five years!