Aibu to not insist DS and his friend come home?

[MintoTime]

Ainu to not insist my 15 yr old and his friend come home?

First day of the holidays, he and a friend V have gone to another friend As house. It’s about 10-15 minutes walk away. He was very vague about their plans but asked if V could sleep over at our place. We usually allow DS a fair amount of freedom as long as he stays local, keeps Find My switched on and keeps in touch. He kind of agreed to a 1am return. It’s now 2;42 and we’ve had a discussion on and off since 1;00 about when he should come home, and he says that they will probably just sleep at As house. Ordinarily I’d be fine with that. But Vs mum texted me earlier to check that V was ok to sleep at our place… and now he isn’t. Vs mum doesn’t expect me to police what V does, she just doesn’t like having to stay up late to check he is home. I didn’t read her message as being suspicious of what V might do - but maybe she was 🤷‍♀️ I don’t know her very well.

I’ve decided to leave them to sleep at As, but to text when they leave if they decide to come back. This is what I would do for DS. But is it still ok when Vs mum thinks he’s sleeping at our place?

Agreed. At 15 this blows my mind. A 1am return?! Which he only 'kind of' agreed to? And then ignored?

1am?! Holy shit, I knew some parents were different but that honestly blows my mind. FIFTEEN?!

If I was you I would have got V to message his mum and say that plans have changed.

If it was my daughter, I'd expect her to let me know if there had been a change of plan and ask my permission not leave it up to another parent to tell me.

Depends on why I had to be home I guess. But OPs child hasn’t ignored her, they were in communication and she knew where they were and that they can sleep there instead. Surely it’s safer for them to stay where they are than walk home if safety is an issue.

I should have posted on Mamansnet 🤦‍♀️

It all depends on the child and the context. If he was wayward and the OP didn't know the people they were staying with then that would be a worry.

But, they're at a close friend's place, the DS has been in touch with his mum so she knows exactly where he is, and THEY'RE IN FRANCE and the OP has explained this level of independence is normal.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist people!

Goodness, at 15, I was going to pubs and all night parties, drinking copious amounts of booze and taking LSD and mushrooms and lying to my parents about where I was and what I was doing. As were many, many teenagers in the 90s. I'm not advocating that, but this sounds positively wholesome - the DS and his mum trust each other and he sounds sensible with a nice group of friends. Well done, OP, you must be doing something right!

So I texted Vs mum to tell her they slept at As instead and that they’ve appeared back here for more sleep. She’s completely fine with it - just wanted reassured that I hadn’t been disturbed by them. I didn’t tell her that I’d disturbed myself 😂 more than they did.

If you didn’t have doubts about your decision, you wouldn’t have posted in here. That should have given you your answer.

I understand giving children freedom as they get older, but this sounds a bit too free. At 15, you should know where he is and when he's coming home. If a friend is staying with you, this should be confirmed. And even though it's the school holidays but 1am?

To be fair OP, you're posting in English to people reading in English who will assume you are in an English speaking country. Back peddling with French cultural differences to justify your position when you got push back is lame. That should have been stated in your fist post. It seems in France this is a non issue, so why post in the first place?.

Well yes. If you post on a site that's mostly British parents and you live in France where there's different norms then you'd know more than us. I'm Welsh and I'd expect to know where my dd spends each night.

If it’s totally different in France (as you keep saying) then why are you posting asking what to do about it all on a predominantly English chat?
To then just defend your actions when everyone says they wouldn’t let a 15 yr old do what they want etc.

I see there might a cultural difference but I still think the op is just allowing her son to do what he likes and had lied to the other parent to protect her son, i don't think a 15 year should get the final say which is what happened here. Fwiw I think the son did ignore his mother the "agreed" curfew was 1 an he ignored this and stayed out anyway.

I don't think it matters what time they are home necessarily, though my experience of French parenting is not like you suggest. Kids might be given more freedom generally but they are absolutely expected to follow rules when they are set.

If you give them a time to be home and they refuse/ignore then that's disrespectful. Is that what happened? Or did they ask for an extension of the curfew before that time?

OP hasn’t lied to the other parent, she just hasn’t given a running account of the kids whereabouts in the middle of the night. I don’t see the issue of letting them do what they want when what they want is to sleep at A’s house rather than sleep at OP’s. V isn’t sleeping at home either way so it makes no difference to V’s mum. Why would anyone want to force them to walk back in the middle of the night just out of principle?

I think the majority of us replying are British. No idea why its different in France but i would be absolutely fuming if you didnt 'police' both boys being home on time when they were meant to be staying at yours.

Plus 1am also sounds ridiculous to be roaming the streets at any age - let alone 15?!

Now you are just tying yourself up in knots, to prove the op didn't "deceive" a boys parent, to i don't know why tbh probably so she didn't upset her son.

I’m really not. How do you think OP has lied though? The understanding was that both kids were sleeping at OPs. Plans changed in the middle of the night. I wouldn’t like to be woken up just to be told my teen is sleeping at A’s house and not OP’s. I can honestly not see what difference that would make for me. They are all friends.

You have said you are in France and it is a different culture, but as a British mother, no way would my 15 year old be out till 1am, 10pm would have been curfew if not a school night , and I most likely would go and collect my child, I have boys and stats show teenage boys are most likely to be victims of violent crime. I want to know where they are and how they are getting home. If I was the mother of the friend and my child was not at your house when I thought he would be I would want a phone call no matter what time of night .

It’s not a school night, first night of the spring holidays in fact. No one was roaming the streets: DS keeps his tracker turned on so I know where he is.

i didn’t lie to anyone - not sure how that has been thought 🤷‍♀️ Vs mum contacted me early evening to check that I was ok with V sleeping at ours. I replied yes no problem. That’s all the content we had until this morning, when I told her what had actually happened. She’s fine with that.

And you are all completely right that I shouldn’t have asked about this on MN without including the cultural context. What can I say? I’ve been on here for years, it’s always been my first port of call for parenting head wobbles. But this one wasn’t the right call, I accept that.

She really isn’t.

@MintoTime Completely accept that there are cultural differences here that British parents will find anathema.

However, does that also mean that your teens don’t have to stick to agreements you’ve made and therefore effectively can do whatever they want?

While I’m not on board with the 1am agreement, I can see how that might be different in another country. Same for V’s parent being OK whether her teen was at your house or A’s house.

But is it also cultural differences for your teen to completely ignore what you’ve agreed? 1am on the first day of spring break is more than reasonable surely? To not come home when you’ve agreed and to be texting you until almost 3an while they decide what they are going to do….ignoring your agreement….it just sounds like they’re going to do whatever they want, when they want, and you have no say. At 15.

You should have told V’s mum from the outset. Maybe she wouldn’t be bothered, maybe she would, but at that age I’d want to know if my child was staying somewhere other than where I thought he was. Technically you are responsible for him at the moment. What if something happens?
And your DS now needs consequences for not coming home when he said- although it doesn’t sound like you were very firm with him so that might be tricky/unfair if he thinks you’ve ’allowed’ it.
You tell him that from now on if he is having a friend to stay and he wants to change the plans, you will check with the other parent first and he needs to be prepared for the other parent saying no. Better yet, don’t allow him to change plans.

I wouldn't let a 15 year old out til that time and I would have told V's mother that he wasn't at yours, whatever time it was.

It's all fine when nothing goes wrong but if something had happened to him she'd be blaming you for not telling her he wasn't at yours.

They're 15 and staying out til 1am with your permission? I'm sorry but they're far too young and should've been home hours before that. Especially as the friend is someone else's kid who she's trusted is under your care.