Child given money by "Vicar" at school

[TakeALookAtTheseSwatches]

So my 10 year old daughter (year 5) came home from school on Thursday and told us the Vicar (possibly just a trainee, I'm not entirely sure) who was taking their collective worship at school gave her £5 to "get herself an Easter treat" and that it was "just between me and you" I asked her if she told the teacher and she said no. I feel quite uneasy about this, should I say something to the school?

@TakeALookAtTheseSwatchesI would also report it immediately to the Diocesan Safeguarding Team. I’m a Parish Safeguarding Officer and while you could theoretically also go to whoever that is in the relevant church, I would advise you bypass them in this case and go directly to the main team. The PSO would have to notify them within 24 hours anyway and this speeds up the process and doesn’t rely on internal church politics, should there be any…not that I would hold any truck with that myself.

Could you give us any more details? What was the situation, and how did he broach it?

How do you normally contact the teacher? If via dojo then do that as well. Seems odd there is no way of contacting anyone than one email.

Yeah, I think school, diocese and local safeguarding number is a belt and braces plan, given it’s the holidays. Even if there’s been a miscommunication (doesn’t sound like it) it’s best to report.

Thursday 2nd.

Yes, that was posted at 10.30 last night, and discussed.

OP, I just wanted to say well done to you and your parenting. You’ve clearly been having the right conversations with your DD for her to know that keeping secrets isn’t okay and it’s wonderful that she immediately came to you with her concerns and you took action. Well done to you both!

So your saying that it's the volunteers fault for picking the "wrong" organisation to work/volunteer for in good faith?

They should certainly accept that volunteering at a place notorious for enabling child abuse will require a DBS certificate, of course.

Some police forces have been less than thorough when investigating child sex abuse. Are you saying therefore that no-one should join or work for the police? Sexual abuse can occur in care homes. The Care Quality Commission published a report on this in 2020. Are you saying that no-one should work in a care setting?

Of course I didn't say no one should volunteer at a church, I said they should pay for a DBS check. And of course you would need a DBS check (or the equivalent) to work for the police or in a care home. I'd be extremely concerned if you didn't.

In 2018 an ITV documentary revealed the true extent of sexual abuse at the UK’s boarding schools, with hundreds of people accused of carrying out sexual attacks in recent years and dozens of ongoing police investigations. Are you saying that no-one should volunteer or work for a boarding school?

Again, where are you getting the idea I said no one should work or volunteer at a church? I said you would need a DBS certificate, as you would at a boarding school. Common sense, surely?

And that it's OK for those church volunteers mentioned before to be penalised financially for the nefarious activities of a disturbed few?

If someone is complaining that they're being financially penalised because they're being required to pay £50 for a DBS certificate to work for an organisation that has a long-running history of covering up child abuse, they need to take a long hard look at themselves. Only an incredibly self-obsessed person would think like that.

TBH I think it's you who has skewed priorities.

Why?

I haven’t followed the full line of this debate. But just to say I have never heard of volunteers having to pay for their own DBS in churches. If this is true for this individual then it is definitely not the norm. Our church covers the costs of our volunteers as part of its committment to safer recuitment. Safeguarding basic, foundation and leadership (for example if you are managing other volunteers) plus our own safeguarding training with fire procedures and code of conduct information specific to our place of worship is also all free of charge. Likewise if you volunteer to be a first aider - this cost is covered.
I’d hate people who felt they might like to volunteer being put off by the potential cost. There is a time committment to safer recruitment. But we make no apologies for that. We only want volunteers who are as committed to safeguarding as the rest of us are! Being rich is absolutely not a requirement though.

Adults asking children to keep secrets from other adults is predatory behaviour.

Exactly. So why would your first instinct be to assume it might not be "real", presumably that you think the child might be lying?

I was referring to the post not being real. Very vague short story detailing the classic tale of clergymen being predators, and has come to MN about it rather than just report it, which would be 99% of other people's first instinct - reeks of ragebait if you ask me.

Which is why I specified, if it is real, and not just ragebait, obviously the school should be informed. I would never assume a child is lying or be doubtful of them when it concerns matters like this.

The fact that this person said it 'was just between you and me' would set alarm bells ringing for me. Adults telling children to keep secrets are usually up to no good.

@ZoeCM If someone is complaining that they're being financially penalised because they're being required to pay £50 for a DBS certificate to work for an organisation that has a long-running history of covering up child abuse, they need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Why?

These people are not employees, they are volunteers. If you'd read my original post you would know that.
Employees usually get their DBS checks paid for by the employer.

Hugely worrying. I would be notifying the police on the 101 line and tell them you have emailed the school as well. Great that you have the fiver as additional evidence - hope you’ve kept it separately. That is exactly how grooming starts. I can’t imagine she has made it up.

I can't say if other volunteers such as tea ladies and brass cleaners get paid DBS checks but certainly Bellringers didn't IME

Absolutely right to be worried about this. It sounds like grooming- they’ll try to get away with some small indiscretion to see how the child responds. I’d be coming down on this like a tonne of bricks. At best it’s inappropriate to make gifts to a child in that setting, at worst it could be the prelude to something very much more serious.

I think you should tell the school ánd go to the police. Please do something! This is not normal! I have been abused (not raped) by a priest in my teenage years. My mother knew and accused me of "exagerating" because he was "a man of god" so obviously couldn't do anything wrong and I was a liar. Once my younger brother went with me, the priest told him "this is between me and your sister, you wait here in the hallway". The priest was my brother's Latin teacher.

Religion should be kept out of schools and there is charity and there is handing a child money, I'd report it

The only remote scenario I can see for this is if there was a collection and she had nothing for the collection plate which he meant this for ( and she didn’t realise). As others have said in that situation he might have meant don’t tell the other children. However at very very best and most charitable explanation, he should have known better , and needs substantially more safeguarding training. If it was innocent ( and I struggle to understand how) he won’t mind it being brought to his attention and clarifying. If it wasn’t then you have an opportunity ( thanks to your brilliant daughter) to ensure he is removed/ closely monitored before any harm is done ( hopefully).

As it is a member of clergy, you need to call the Diocesan Safeguarding Advisor. As you state that you are in County Durham, you can find the details you need here: https://www.durhamdiocese.org/support-for-your-role/parish-safeguarding-officers/support-and-contacts

So your issue isn't actually that the DBS certificate is required, but that the church isn't covering the cost themselves? That's not what you said in your earlier posts. You said that requiring the DBS was "bonkers bureaucracy" and a "kneejerk reaction".

Why haven't you replied to any of the other points I made? Why did you say my priorities are skewed?

I agree and I don’t understand why the Police shouldn’t be involved immediately whether it’s also reported to the school or church. Especially given we are now into two weeks of school holiday.

I would have thought the Police would be genned up enough now to take this seriously but also be careful if the child has made it up. If she has made it up and that comes out it’ll be a big life lesson for her when the Police tell her she’s wasted their time.

T gov whom time to cover his tracks ? Would you do this to any potential pedophile? Give them time to think if a story to tell , hide evidence and cover their back ? They jay if he has abused if other kids already ? Why doe she get a free pass based on religion ?

I am shocked you haven’t contacted the police who would get in touch with the head anyway . This is not something that’s hour be waiting

Sounds like the first step in grooming and gaining her trust to me. Absolutely report it. There are no circumstances in which this would be acceptable and the Vicar will have had safeguarding training so would have known .