Are other full-time working families finding there is nothing left?

[fatface001]

Alarm went off at 5:30 this morning, then an hour stood on a packed train into London for the commute. We are a normal family: one child and two full-time jobs. I’ve always enjoyed working and have always worked hard, and I don’t mind that at all — but I do expect that full-time work should still mean there’s something left at the end of the month for a normal life.

But that really doesn’t feel like the case anymore.

There’s nothing left at the end of the month. Everything has been stripped back, all non-essentials have gone, and even basic things around the house are being put off or done ourselves because there isn’t spare money for trades. It’s just constant cutting back.

What’s hard is that we’re both working really long hours and doing everything we’re “supposed” to do, but it still feels like we’re going backwards rather than getting ahead.

When I hear talk about “those with the broadest shoulders” contributing more, I honestly don’t recognise it anymore in real life. It doesn’t feel like anyone in our position has anything left to give — it feels like the pressure is entirely on ordinary working households just to stand still.

I’m not looking for luxuries — just the sense that working still gives you a bit of breathing room. Right now it doesn’t feel like that at all.

Is anyone else feeling the same?

We are and it's getting DP down so much. We feel like we have less disposable income than when DD was at nursery costing £1,000 a month, with me working only two days a week and DP's salary £20k less. Prices of everything are soaring aren't they?

Just got our cat's insurance through, up from £900 a year to £1,800, for one example! We've now fixed our mortgage after waiting a year for rates to drop which obvs went tits up.

DP is a high earner and I always remind him that we're lucky compared to a lot of people but I get why he gets down about it - he works very hard, is away all the bloody time, stress levels high and he's a bit like what's the point.

I'm a freelancer, I'm working full-time and trying to earn as much as I can and also selling everything I can on Vinted as a side hustle.

We're doing ok; one ft the other around 30 hours a week very average salaries. BUT we don't live in the SE/London which is a key factor here. Also we bought our home in 2009 and took advantage of the low interest rates to overpay our mortgage and get the balance down so when the rates (inevitably) went up we could weather the storm. We are not rich, but we are able to do the modest things we want to do with our kids.

I think the fact that food/oil prices have risen exponentially has really been shrugged off by both this government (and previous one) and the supermarkets. My husband thinks nothing of feeding the dogs ham but yesterday I had to point out that a loaf of bread, packet of ham, some tomatoes and a tub of butter - just the basic ingredients to make a ham sandwich on which he snacks - cost more than a tenner. He doesn’t food shop, just moans that he keeps having to top up the ‘household account’. Both our kids will be at uni in Sept and I worry that they will struggle to feed themselves properly at those prices. My freezer is bursting with left over cheese, bread and other stuff that I would once have thrown away but now make sure I catch before the use by date and try to ‘save’.

The mortgage is now £700 a month. If I were paying my half, I would still not be destitute. I would still get by on my current salary

It didn't used to be this much of a struggle. IME, 30 years ago, a family with one decent earner (a teacher) could afford a decent 3 bed semi while the other parent either didn't work or worked part time so childcare wasn't an issue.

Does anyone breeze through life never having to struggle? I don't think very many of us do. I remember quite a few years with young children, working full-time, trying to improve our wreck of a house, and when all spending was for needs rather than wants.

Now, we are very comfortable. These days when you are establishing yourself are tough, but they pass.

I think this is the key:

Interest rates were so low for years and years that people felt they could buy more, without seeing the incredibly low rates as a temporary bonus. So prices go up

Investors buying houses - prices go up

Shared ownership schemes let you borrow more - prices go up

Housing shortages - prices go up

Everything is built on debt. Many young people want it all now and get into debt to do it. No one seems to accept they need to have less now and put money aside for a rainy day

And unfortunately the current housing crisis is going to be dwarfed by the looming pension crisis.

a normal life ... going backwards rather than getting ahead

We are in late-stage capitalism, where all the money has been sucked up to the few at the top ('trickle down' was always a big fat lie).

So our idea of what is a "normal life" is going to have to change. This base-line of normality has been declining since the 1970s, but the decline has been disguised by tech toys so we didn't notice we were getting poorer. A single man used to be able to support a SAHM and children on a single wage. If he was working class they likely had no car but could afford a week away in the UK. If he was middle class, they had a mortgage (on a single salary!), a car and maybe a holiday abroad.

Now it takes two parents working flat out, and many decide they can't afford a second baby. Yes, we have smartphones, a car each (on credit though), and for a while flights to Europe were cheap, but overall standards of living have been declining for decades.

So our idea of "normal" based on what our parents or even grandparents had needs a reality check.

Add to that we need to give up ideas of 'going backwards' or 'getting ahead'. It is not a law of nature or a law of physics that each generation should be better off than the one before. With global oil production having peaked, we are now into long-term decline in energy availability, so our whole society will have to get used to successive generations being poorer. There is no "progress".

@sorryIdidntmeanto regardless of actual income I think any reduction in anyone’s standard of living is hard for them. Obviously politics of envy means if someone can’t afford a cleaner or eating out every week anymore then many will just think so what most people can’t afford that. But it’s a reduction in standard and no one is going to like that.

DH family lost out financially hugely when he was 18. His Father lost his job as assistant CEO of a global company. DH said Mum fell out of love when the money ran they divorced eventually she is still very bitter as had a huge drop in living standards. She had a housekeeper and a 2 million house on a private road in Surrey. She has her retirement in a 3 bed mock Georgian terrace and has to do her own cleaning. I mean it’s fine but it is a huge drop. When we suggested she shop at Morrisons instead of Waitrose you think we had suggested she go dumpster diving round the back of Lidl.

Somebody has to pay the taxes to support those who don't fancy a working day like yours. Think of their gratitude as you catch the train home this evening.

families who are spending everything on essentials are a really bad sign for the economy. If nobody has any money to spend, then all those businesses like food delivery, hospitality, luxuries, holidays and even non-basic food are going to get squeezed out of business.

and some people judge without even bothering to know how benefits work such as you currently have to earn a tiny amount to get free school meals. You certainly aren't getting it if you earn anything close to £30k.

I’m a high earner and I am not going to be chastised for not living like I’m on benefits - what’s the point in having it if I live like I did when I didn’t have two pennies to rub together? Being a higher earner doesn’t go as far as it did though, lots of nice to haves will go for everyone if not enough people can afford them. Hankering for Communist Russia where we’re all in the four hour queue for the state loaf of bread seems to have some kind of appeal to a lot of people, which I don’t understand.

Yep. And for more of that crap to really ramp up, vote Reform...

Yep was exactly the same as you, OP, and then I lost my job before Christmas. It was getting tight before then and now I am living on air as everything stripped back. If you have the energy, are there any side hustles you could do? I made quite a bit on Vinted.

I think the majority of people feel like this. Feels like we're working for nothing.

No one has suggested you do. But maybe just don't moan about how hard it is for you!

“those with the broadest shoulders” contributing more” refers to the highest tax rates imposed on the highest salaries.
What’s your household income? Eg if you’re on 45k each (household income 90k) then you won’t be paying any higher rate tax so the broadest shoulders doesn’t refer to you.

However at this level I can potentially see why you feel like there’s not much left after childcare, commuting costs, mortgage (assuming it’s fairly big) and food/petrol/bills.

As @Kirbert2 said people on benefits are not winning. I’m too ill to work. I’m not on the breadline and I’m very grateful for the support I get. I lead a very simple life and budget carefully. I have a lot of
extra expenses due to my health issues too. Eg greater need for heating, have to pay for various healthcare things that the NHS doesn’t provide.

Because the government make sure you get inflationary increases and you dont have to worry about fighting for a payrise/searching for a slightly better paid job etc. Top ups and childcare costs paid. Rent paid or subsidised. I'd say thats winning financially in some respects, compared to those who have high private rents or mortgages and bills coupled with wages which have stagnated rather than increased with inflation.

Completely and utterly YES. I bought some cakes in a box the other day. I had to get out a magnifying glass to find them. I think we are being monumentally ripped off by the super rich and large corporations.

I do. Even with a payrise I have nothing left at the end of the month. And I'm not on a bad salary. Just, the price of everything is so bad. And I don't even have car finance. We were able to buy that outright 4 years ago.

I have a normal set of outgoings/expenses, and a good salary, and yep, abs. olutely nothing left.

I take it that your monthly mortgage payment is taking up a very large percentage of your income, the interest rate having shot up in the last few years.

Brexit, oligarchy, ramifications of lockdown, illogical oil fuelled wars(no pun intended), religion, cunts like Trump & Farage. Those are a few of the shitty things UK could be doing without right now.

Nursery is temporary though.