Vet advice… AIBU about costs.

[MyFairLady22]

My Dog is 11yrs old. She’s a large breed and is therefore a good age. She’s been loved and cared for to within an inch of her life for every moment of those 11 years! She’s on YouMove Max, salmon oil capsules, and prescription anti inflammatory medication from our vet.

In the past few months, she’s been back and forth to the vet with trembling… shaking…wobbling and difficulty getting in the car/on the bed/sofa. I lift her! It’s worsened in the past few weeks. Suddenly, she jerks/mouth snaps/falls. She eats well. Swims. Plays. Gets groomed twice a day (she’s very woolly ☺️).

Now, the vet thinks she’s having myoclonic seizures. A form of late onset epilepsy/fitting but NOT losing consciousness. It is caused by tumours to which the breed is susceptible. I’ve put mats all over the house to prevent slipping; bought two ramps she will not use! Support her on off my bed at night (I’m divorced - she took over the vacant side of the bed pretty quickly!).

This morning, went to the vets for her blood test for the medicine she’s on. The vet last week tested her liver/kidney function and fasted blood sugar which all came back “like a five year old dog’s”She’s pretty healthy but for this degenerative disease process starting recently.

Today, it has been suggested to do a referral to a neurologist. Months ago, my own lovely vet, who knows I’m paying my own bill said “It depends how far you want to go and in reality, WHAT YOU DO with the results; she’s an old girl (for the breed); were she a puppy or aged 5, then that’d be very different”. This helped me enormously. The vet understood that I just don’t have endless funds available and we agreed that scans etc were NOT the way to go.

So, AIBU to feel frantic that now, the vet is suggesting initial diagnostic tests totalling £3,500 as a starting point? It’s like we never had the conversation about costs. My sister has offered to loan me the money but this payment is just the first consultation and scan.

Help please. Am I giving up on man’s best friend? AIBU to think the vet has done a total u-turn on appropriate treatment options?

Such thoughtful and kind responses. Thank you all.

As it stands, we shall carry on. The other day she went flying and banged her “knees/hips/elbows” on the door ledge, trying to avoid the damned ramp I’d placed there, to help 🤦‍♀️ It has been removed to the shed!

I’m hoping this harness with handle arrives tomorrow. That way, I can give her a push up/help down, as it were.

She’s proper happy in the lounge at the moment, with her snuffle mat! ☺️

I know people are saying the vet is just giving options but it is a bit more than that (my dad was a vet so I'm not anti vets).
When a pet is a significant part of your life and emotional support (and I have a graveyard for still born kid goats and cry when they die after knowing them for 2 days if they don't make it, so well know emotional connections to animals) and you are given expensive choices to defer a decision to end their life or interventions that might prolong life, you start measuring your capacity for compassion for your loved pet against the financial cost to yourself. None of us like to think we will be ruled by the financial side when it comes to these decisions, but we are, and vets well know it. If he they come in at 20k for diagnostics then we have no choice to make because we can'tafford it. But 3k, we start thinking maybe we can get the cash, make some sacrifices, borrow, etc
But our compassion and love for our pets should be when they are living happy and healthy lives not prolonging a life well lived to find the business of veterinary practice. If vets gave ti give this information then they should be very clear of the benefits to pet health and not just vague ideas about possibke outcomes, additional costs and benefits.
We actually do cost benefit assessments for human treatments everyday in the NHS, but for some reason Vets don't do this.

Didn't say this earlier didn't have time - but wrt vets and fees ...

Just recently i had to take our eldest cat to the vet (16). She had what was very obviously a UTI, she had one about 2 years ago and we all know what the symptoms are! That time she was prescribed a simple antibiotic and got better within 2 days.

I rang and asked if we could just be prescribed the same again. It would be on her notes from back then. No - i had to bring her in to be seen. Fair enough, but a shame to stress her out so much. Sure enough, yes, they saw her and it was a UTI again. £40 consultation. BUT - would they just prescribe her the ABs again? No! They wanted to come back in later in the week, anesthetiser her !!!, do a bladder test, wait for it to culture, have me bring her back in a 3rd time to tell me the results THEN prescribe an AB. This would all cost fucking hundreds of pounds plus leave her in pain for another 10 days before starting treatment!!!!! 😳😡

I threatened to just have her put down. I said if they did not just prescribe the old tablets again i would bring her in and have her put down because she was suffering. I had to do this in tears in the phone to the practice manager.

He relented and said this time he'd just prescribe them but wasn't happy.

Guess what? I went and got them that afternoon and she was better 2 days later.

I don't trust the vets any more.

@Goatsarebest £3500 as a starting point is a huge amount of money for me. Paying for medication and regular blood tests is expensive but doable. A bill of possibly £5k plus to diagnose is colossal. My vet is a young woman whose advice I trust but I do feel it has become conflicting.

I think ££££ could be spent, searching for diagnosis. Treatment MAY then be available but will I be able to afford it? Doubtful. Or, they may confirm a tumour (that’s what my vet thinks) and my girl is still an old dog, with a tumour with possibly treatment which I think is not worth the pain. I want her happy and comfortable. And not anxious each time I pull in to the car park at the vets.

Just to add i had a thread about it here at the time and got some v good advice about getting prescriptions for pets online.

I think vets feel they need to tread a careful line when they talk about euthanasia. Vets probably get some very strong responses when they offer it as an option, not from all owners, but some. Sometimes vets seem relieved when you suggest it before they do.

Your vet may have forgotten that they gave it as an option, so hasn't brought it up again.

It may be worth getting a second opinion @MyFairLady22 just to see if more can be done for her without the diagnostics . I don’t altogether trust a lot of vets ( or doctors for that matter ) as we’ve had some pretty shit experiences . I got banned from one local horse vet who wanted me to start steroids and nebulisers on our 26 yr old pony when what I wanted was a pot of ventipulmin for use in the summer . We had been using this system since she was 11 with our previous vet who retired . They basically said I was neglectful so I found a different vet who agreed with me . Pony is now 33 and last year we didn’t need the ventipulmin at all . I wouldn’t have minded but we had tried nebulisers back in the day when she was first diagnosed but she’s quite obstinate and won’t play ball .

Sorry you are going through this. Dear Cat was 17.5 and literally treated like a god by me and DH. She had multiple health issues and the week before she was PTS they were still suggesting diagnostic tests costing £3.5k on my heartbroken husband. I called it in the end - would we actively treat her even if we knew what was wrong with her? No we would not. She declined massively over the next few days and ended up putting her peacefully to sleep the following week

Aw, 💐. I understand your dilemma very well.

We lost our DDog last year to what we believe was bowel cancer, but as she was an elderly dog we opted to treat the systems that were presenting, rather than go for invasive investigations that would probably have confirmed something we would not have treated anyway.

We knew we had about 4 - 6 weeks and we loved and spoilt her for those weeks, but fully in the knowledge that any day could be the last day. We could possibly have given her a few more days, but we have a couple of lovely photos and videos of her pottering around the garden and generally enjoying the sunshine about an hour before we took her to the vet for the final time. We walked her there and she was doing her doggy things on the way.

I wouldn't have had it any other way, and if we had gone for invasive investigations, her last few weeks would most likey have included crate recovery, and why put her through that for no reason.

Do what you think would be kindest for your DDog.

@Createausername1970 Thanks for sharing her story. I think that sounds lovely. For her and for you.

We aren’t there yet. Part of the problem is that all her tests and bloods came back super normal she walks twice a day but then tremors, wobbles and keels… no loss of consciousness.

We shall carry on.

I’ll mention what IS strange … my girl wants to be on the back seat of the car, all the time. I have a sling thing for her between the front and back seats. She likes being in there for hours on end. Cries at the front door after food, until I lift her back in.

Tbh i saw thing recently that said its ok to let them go on a good day. And we as fur mums occasionally let them carry on too long, and almost noone feels they let them go too soon.

Not feeding and grooming are the very end stage discomfort. Im not saying youre at time yet, but for a large breed at 11 youre unfortunately getting close to that even if there was next to nothing wrong

Your vet no doubt knows how much you love your fluffball and might want to give you all the options. But dont doubt yourself you know your animal best and when its worthwhile to extend her life and keep her happy and when it would be for you to avoid letting her have some peace.

I wish you both more good times for a while yet x

Shes lucky to have you ❤️

Do you have a suspended type bed for her? She might be feeling the benefit of the sling support.

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5814129 for example. My 10yo, 30kg arthritic mutt is really preferring hers to the sofa these days. She has a soft pad on it for some extra warmth.

The vet has to tell you what all the options are even if you've had other conversations before and he knows you likely won't take it. A different client might go ballistic if they had their dog put to sleep then discovered later there was a treatment option they hadn't been told about. Just because he mentions it doesn't mean you have to do it, or even that it's a "suggestion" as such, let alone a recommendation.

My dog is 5 we just paid 1k for investigations (which we will get £800 back on ins) he’s got hip dysplasia. Had he been 11 i wouldn’t have put him through expensive invasive investigations.
it does feel like sometimes with the vets it’s money over quality of life

We’ve been through this recently. We were insured so it didn’t come down to money (which made it easier to feel better about our choices as we didn’t need to feel like we were doing it due to finances, even though that’s also very reasonable).
Dog was a good age for her breed. She had a grade 3 cancerous lump removed in the summer, they wanted to scan to see how far it had progressed but she really struggled with recovery so we said we wouldn’t put her through further surgery no matter what, so turned down the scans as it wouldnt change the treatment.
She then started to lose use of her back end and eventually bowel control. Again they offered scans, but we declined as it wouldn’t change the treatment.
We made them as comfortable as possible until we decided we were keeping them here for us and not them. In the end, I’m very glad we didn’t keep them having lots of scans and treatments.

Pain relief for neck pain
Keppra for myoclonus

It was only a suggestion by the vet as they are obliged to cover the options with you. I'd say no thanks. What you CAN do and what you OUGHT to do are not necessarily the same thing.

She has. Her recommendation is initial consult and scan @£3500. Further investigation depending on what the MRI shows. There IS no other advice/treatment available or offered. She has said they won’t treat myoclonic syndrome symptoms WITHOUT a solid diagnosis. Even in an old dog.

I asked about Kepler. It was a flat no without ACTUAL diagnosis. I asked, in view of her age and possible reduced symptoms, whether Keppra was suitable (she’s 11 not 3!). It was still “no”.

@firstofallimadelight Im beginning to agree. My point was… treat her for the symptoms. Apparently, they can’t. Even at her age, it’s scans first.

Don’t do it. You will second thousands and maybe only have her for a few months or even weeks. Keep your DD comfortable until the time comes to say goodbye. This might be soon but so be it. You have loved her and given her a wonderful life. Now her quality of life is very poor and prolonging it will prolong her suffering. I think from your post you know this is right but you just need a bit of support. You are doing the right thing. Just tell you vet your decision and I’m sure they’ll support you.
ETA pts immediately would not be the right thing to do if they can’t treat symptoms and your DD is fitting.

Re the vets change of stance, they often aren’t allowed to suggest pts and are obliged to push diagnostics and treatment to generate revenue. I had the same when my cat was very ill and we found a tumour in a place that couldn’t be operated on. The vet suggested tests and I said no pts now please, he is suffering. She looked so relived and agreed with me 100%. I just don’t think she was allowed to suggest it first.
She is your dog and you know the hard decision is the kind one. No anaesthetics or lumbar punctures, just cuddles and love until it’s goodbye.

Agree,I absolutely adore my little girl,but I would keep her safe ,loved and pain free. X