AIBU that reducing under 5s screen time is way more complicated than just issuing guidelines?

[Lovelygreenpen]

This guidance is welcome. We need to know facts and risks to make informed choices. But choices often aren’t made entirely freely. Think about healthy eating and exercise guidance and how complicated these can be to follow due to costs and time.

How would following this under 1 hour rule change your daily routine?
Most parents need to work all the hours with COLC and decades of rising housing costs. working life also often expands to expect parents to be in contact from home outside of paid work hours.
How are busy parents supposed to manage? How are solo working parents specifically supposed to manage? Any family with more than one child?
And what about the screens used in childcare settings?
What are the responsibilities of the makers of the crazy overstimulating content for babies and kids?

We know women often have to do more domestic labour than men, even where they live with a male partner. Also, that the makers of the content aimed at kids specifically employ addictive techniques.

So how is this pressured wider environment going to change to make this recommendation more realistic?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d936n7445o

I’m pretty sure people said all the same things about books

I always think this is a such a lazy argument. There wasn’t a wealth of actual evidence for the detrimental effects of books.

Meh, it’s government guidelines.
Those parents who care about it will already be doing things as per the guidelines.
Those that don’t care will carry on as they are.
Those that don’t see what choice they have due to their working situation or lack of childcare support will just end up feeling even more shit about their lives.

I’m not entirely convinced it will make any difference at all.

One thing I find hard is that it requires 2 parents to commit. We have a small house. My DH likes to have the TV on in the only living space.
There is nowhere else to go. The children beg for cartoons. He obliged.

We don't have tablets thank goodness. But it's hard

This is true, but I am a SEND parent and my take on it is that screens are a tool and like any tool they can be misused.

We don't restrict screen time in our house.

I used to have really bad PFB syndrome with DS, who was non-speaking, and at our early SALT appointments it seemed like he may never speak, he never copied noises or showed an interest even when we were being child led. I had a no screen policy. We talked all day at him, we narrated what we were doing, we copied his vocalisations to see if we can get him to eventually copy ours. Our throats were hoarse at the end of every day. I often said it felt like we'd used up our allocated word limit for the day, and still felt like we were failing because he wasn't speaking.

One day I came home from work and DP had put on this YouTube video that was loud and overstimulating to say the least but DS was singing and signing the alphabet.

I asked on reddit for less overstimulating content, and we moved to Yakka Dee and the Twirlywoos, but didn't abandon intensive interaction based play or books, and it just became an additional resource.

Now DS is speaking, but significantly delayed still, and sometimes he comes home from school absolutely wired, to the point he will hurt himself or others accidentally. No amount of running him round, rough housing, parks, trampolines, ball games etc would tire him out, but some old 90s and 00s style cartoons would get him to sit down and drink and eat a meal where he would otherwise not, and was losing weight rapidly. There were days where we would limit or restrict screen time completely, and he would only have had a few sips of a drink and a nibble of something to eat.

Understimulation can be just as bad as overstimulation and I think unless you've experienced this with your children then it's a hard concept to grasp as a lot of focus is about how overstimulating today's media really is, but for sensory seeking children it can be an absolute lifesaver when nothing else is working.

These days DS likes to replay short clips on YouTube as a means to regulate, and they are categorically overstimulating clips, but the repetition fulfills the need of needing to know what comes next, familiarity and routine when the rest of the day has been unpredictable and overwhelming; when the day at school hasn't gone quite to plan, or when visitors pop over unannounced on the wrong day of the week, or when there's a transitional period like school to school holidays.

Guidance is good, it raises awareness, but there's no one size fits all model for children, and screens should not be the only tool in a parents arsenal. I don't think guidance alone about screentime is going to be effective, there needs to be support in recognising children's needs and behaviour alongside it.

When I see toddlers and babies with phones in prams, I feel the same revulsion as I would if they were vaping.

They are addicts. They can't "self-regulate" without devices because they are in withdrawal.

Parenting is relentless and difficult, but every generation of parents think they have it 'the hardest'. If they read books instead of staring at their own phones they would realise that parenting has always been a totally self-sacrificing ego-obliterating shit-show. And working households and single households have been normal for 40 years or so.

If you can't handle one or two kids without devices for a whole day, how do you expect teachers to do this for a class of 30?

You're addicted. They are addicted. I'm addicted. Unless we are honest about this, we are looking at a very bleak future.

It's not hard at all, just don't use screens.

Shocking you're saying it's normal to have an hour before breakfast- I can't comprehend ever having it on in the mornings, not sure we ever have.

Got a 1yo, 4yo and 6yo. The big 2 watch a movie every fortnight or so and a 20min foreign language programme once a week. We had a very bad d&v bug last week and they had about an hour of tv a day then but that's honestly the only time it's been on so regularly.

My other half works away for full weeks at a time and I've still never needed as much tv as some are describing.

My eldest has ADHD- yes he is transfixed by screens he would sit for 10hours straight without saying a word but I don't think this is self regulating. It's the opposite it's relying on external stimuli to keep him quiet for an adult benefit.

I don't think that it's easy. It's the right thing to do, and we did it. We put in the work and have a child who has a good attention span and a good relationship with technology now. I think a little acknowledgement that no, this isn't the easiest thing in the world, but it's important (and this is why) could help. There will be those parents who don't care or who are absolutely struggling, but reframing it to others could help shift their priorities.

It's so normalised at the moment and needs a societal shift.

💯

My DC is 11. They have never owned a tablet. They were kept occupied in restaurants / on public transport / waiting rooms with books, colouring, little toys. I had so many felt tips and crayons I gave a bag for life half full of them to their primary school!

Now they are older they do like screens, they have a laptop, play Roblox, watch YouTube etc. But they also love reading and drawing more than anything. And I talk to them about how addictive screens are and how I want them to have a full childhood with memories not just associated with sitting and watching YouTube!

@Jimmyneutronsforehead but you weren't doing this because you didn't bother to engage with your child. You found a solution to your challenges as parents, and meeting your child's needs. It must have been such an incredible moment to see him following, talking and signing. In these cases, it's a tool that parents can use effectively.

I think it’s still a good guidance, parents aren’t going to be penalised if they don’t stick to it.
Like getting your 5-a-day - which some people would say is not enough - some would struggle to get their children to eat this - some would just eat 5 portions sweet fruit and kind of miss the point.
Same with screens, some things worse than others, some days they might not be on any screens, one day they might watch a film, it’s still a good guidance IMO

ETA - no TV before school allowed in this house! When they were younger I just said the TV doesn’t work in the mornings 😂

There are always excuses for why it's too difficult. Mainly BS, same as the emotional regulation argument So many people just want to keep their kids quiet rather than interact with them. Possibly due to their own device addiction.

I see their parents hand their phones over on low volume to help their kids sit still and be quiet, for the sake of other people’s reactions.
Bullshit. That is lazy parenting and nothing to do with other people. I despair when I see an adult shoving a phone in their kid's hands instead of talking about what is outside, eg tree blossom or a dog, or talk about the school day or what plans for the weekend. It's not that fucking hard talking to your own child for 20 minutes.

And what about the screens used in childcare settings?

That used to annoy me - finding they'd stuck something on in preschool.

I was vaugley aware of guidelines when my kids were young but after being out all day and interacting all day with our kids an hour educational carefully selected TV wasn't something I was going to worry over. Plus a few days I was very ill - underlying condition - and no-one but me to look after the kids TV and educational computer games were used and got us through.

Think overall they actually had less screens overall than I had TV in my childhood as we went out doing things much more.

However I was recently around a younger family member and was disturbed - evey peep he was given a screen with a interactive game then they struggled to get off him- he was allowed to run wild and behave inappropriately in settings with a shurg. When someone was interatcing with him doing a game or trying to get him out for excerise it wasn't the parent but another family member. Everything put down to a condition child not diagonsed yet or indeed on a wait list to be so.

The excuse is lack of time - but things were hard when my kids -actually now diagnosed with same condition were young. We had more than one child no money no help from extended family and I was very ill. Our kids did have fire tablets when youger between 6-10 and phones at 11 but they had limits and they excouraged to be active and do things have hobbies go out. They self limit screen now in late teens early adulthood.

I think guidlines will get ignored as so many parents seem to have normalised screen time to more extensive levels and have ready list of reasons why thats' fine. I don't think all screen time is equally as bad either - and having a parent/adult interact with while watching/playing also helps. I do think there is something wrong with screen levels and frankly parenting more generally is an ever growing section of society - think focus on screens hides a wider and expanding problem TBH.

I agree completely. My daughter does not have screens out and about and never will. If we go out for dinner then we talk or she colours. Any TV we watch is generally together. If she's "bored" she gets told to read a book, practice piano or draw.

I agree.

It always has to be one extreme on the other on threads like these from a 5 year old never holding a tablet to a toddler glued to a phone every time they are in the buggy. There's somewhere in the middle too and I believe a balance is good, as well as the quality of what they are watching such as avoiding YouTube.

DS is 3 and has an ipad but he has never had one when he was out and about in his buggy as a younger toddler, he isn't glued to it for hours and also very much so enjoys things such as colouring, painting, puzzles and duplo. He's also incredibly active and having an ipad has never stopped him from zooming around on his balance bike, kicking a ball about and going to the park.

He does generally get about 1 hour a day on screens, occasionally more during a very wet weekend in the winter or when we are travelling etc but I'm certainly not going to beat myself up about that. I'm very happy with our balance on the whole.

My kids are 4 and 2. They watch about 15 minutes of TV during the week. Normally when we get home from nursery and whilst I’m making them tea. On weekends they may watch half hour or so in the morning and eldest will watch another hour when the youngest has a nap as downtime. I’m happy with that. Occasionally we will watch a film but rarely as they don’t have the attention span. I do notice if they have more TV time their behaviour gets worse. And I’m picky about what they can watch too.

Parents manages before hot running water and electricity. Fancy going back to that?

I used to have a children’s book and a box of raisins for my little ones whilst waiting for our doctor’s appointment. I would quietly read the book to them.

I’ve even seen parents give tablets to children during mass. Attending mass for an hour a week is the perfect time to train children to sit still and listen (even if boring for them), by the time they are five they can sit and listen / focus at school fairly easily.

I did use screens sometimes though, when cooking their dinner. I also used the programmes they were interested in for inspiration of what to do with them. Oh you like Peppa Pig, let’s make a Peppa Pig (ham) sandwich together for lunch. Mister Maker, great - let’s get the arts and crafts out and make xyz to copy him.

Screens can be a useful tool but 1 hour a day is plenty ( and I was a busy working parent ).

The guidance is fine but the parents who need it will ignore it. My son is primary school year 4 and there are kids in his class who play adult rated computer games, and have their own smart phones. I can't remember the last time I went to a family restaurant and didn't see a child glued to a tablet or phone.

They can do that by looking at a bird out the window…
I am tired of this argument. Screens distract them and take the opportunity for them to practice and learn actual self regulation.

And the way you manage screens for under fives is obviously by not giving them a tablet at that age to begin with.

Parents have always been under pressure. The difference is there wasn’t screens available for them to use. Giving small children a screen is a choice and there are massive implications on children’s development, hence the guidance from government.
If you speak to anyone who works in early years they will tell you about the impacts of screen time on children’s behaviour and speech.

It’s sad to see isn’t it?

And back in my day, the way parents kept kids quiet was by instilling the fear of god into them and giving them a slap.

I laugh heartily at the implication that parents of yesteryear were way more engaged with their children and didn’t leave them to entertain themselves in ways that were not beneficial to the children. I’m Gen X. Our mothers were not a sit and play or read with us. Nor did we have a room full of toys to entertain ourselves. My parents always berated me for always having my nose in a book. The standing joke is I used to read the phone book. They think it’s funny. Nobody stopped to realise I was so understimulated I would pick up the phone book to read.

I agree. Parents now seem to think if children are not in a club or activity directed at acquiring a skill, they need to be on a screen. In fact, it's the space between those two - independent activity - that is where the real developmental magic comes in. Play is nature's after school extra-curricular activity.