AIBU that reducing under 5s screen time is way more complicated than just issuing guidelines?

[Lovelygreenpen]

This guidance is welcome. We need to know facts and risks to make informed choices. But choices often aren’t made entirely freely. Think about healthy eating and exercise guidance and how complicated these can be to follow due to costs and time.

How would following this under 1 hour rule change your daily routine?
Most parents need to work all the hours with COLC and decades of rising housing costs. working life also often expands to expect parents to be in contact from home outside of paid work hours.
How are busy parents supposed to manage? How are solo working parents specifically supposed to manage? Any family with more than one child?
And what about the screens used in childcare settings?
What are the responsibilities of the makers of the crazy overstimulating content for babies and kids?

We know women often have to do more domestic labour than men, even where they live with a male partner. Also, that the makers of the content aimed at kids specifically employ addictive techniques.

So how is this pressured wider environment going to change to make this recommendation more realistic?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d936n7445o

It doesn't help anyone to just dismissively say 'no it's easy not to use screens'. I'm wondering how do we offer support to those who ARE using screens?

What makes you think the parents / carers who rely on screens would be accepting of any support offered?

There's already plenty of advice and guidance out there, but parents who don't want to put the effort in aren't going to engage with those who are trying to help and support them.

When you have situations, as has been documented, whereby children starting school have no idea how to look at a book, which way up it should be and that swiping doesn’t turn the pages, then it’s clear that they are missing exposure to a key skill.

It may be difficult for some families to begin to reduce screen time, but less so for those who have limited the time young children use screens. If young children are allowed unlimited or extensive screen time, they are going to miss several developmental stages, as well as being unable to manage without an electronic babysitter.

When the screen time is up mine remember how to play with their toys..

Probably because these parents are also addicted to screens. I have been out for a meal and there are tables where each person is looking at their phone- not interacting with each other and this behaviour is repeated with their children.

I agree that this is a massive issue for parents and not easy to resolve that’s why the gov is taking an interest in guidelines (but isn’t making much comment on the wider issues of why)

Honestly I think a lot of parents are knackered because parenting is hard, running a home is expensive, childcare is expensive, parents are also trying to work and hopefully have a social life of their own and they may also have other commitments on top.

Housing costs mean families iften can’t stay living near each other, so not lots of family adults around to keep an eye on the kids, inter generational living isn’t a thing for most people, and maybe increasingly grandparents don’t want to or can’t afford, to do free family childcare for years anymore. They will need jobs as pensions have become so much less generous than they were.

My kids grew up in the era before screens other than a bit of TV. I was a lone parent most of the time. Somehow I managed to keep them busy and still work and run a home. It's too easy to put them on screens requiring no pre planning, tidying up, active engagement. It's very sad as kids living like that are missing out on a lot and not developing their creative side, their fine motor skills or the ability to entertain themselves.

My DS6 and DS2 come home from school and nursery and are straight out in the garden or immediately busy with Lego, magnetic tiles etc. This is their choice - they never have iPads or phones, they are allowed to watch television for up to an hour if they ask, but they rarely do!

Occasionally they start fighting just as I’m trying to make the dinner in which case I do sometimes suggest TV!

However, we are very fortunate tonhave a large house and garden with a playroom full of toys and cupboard full of art materials for them to use as they wish.

I was previously an early years teacher in some of the most deprived areas of London and taught children who literally didn’t have any toys. Nothing at all. Many families were living in one hotel room with no space to play or store toys and books. Some single parents were having to take their children to work with them straight from school (hair salon or similar). It is so easy to be self righteous about this issue, and there is definitely a lot of lazy parenting at play, but for many families there isn’t really any other entertainment option other than watching something on a parent’s phone.

I honestly feel guilty and overwhelmed. I work from home, get up at 4-5 every day to work, be there for school pick ups and holidays. I try to limit screens but me and my partner have a business and I do ad hoc work. You’re told women should work, to be equal. Bills are going up. You can’t afford extra childcare. You have to think about exercise and health. Home cooked meals. Avoiding UPFs and kids with severe food avoidance. Paying into pension (with no help from government or cushy public sector pension and job guarantee no matter how poor you work). Stress daily of if there will be work tomorrow, and having to say yes when it is there (both working 60+ hour weeks), homework, school this and that and make a costume, come to shows, sports days, clubs and more clubs. Be a good wife, keep the house clean, be a good role model. Dyslexia and 0 extra help at school. Constant feeling you are failing…..

= My children often have more than 1 hour of screen time. We also go on adventures, walk the dog, do crafts, sports, play, read every night. And seeing the news this morning, more guilt, guilt, guilt.

My two are 15 and 12 and they've had unlimited (time-wise - content was monitored) access to tablets their whole lives (well, eldest didn't get his own until he was about 4, but he used others). They basically always have a device on them if they are not at school.

They are both near the top of their classes with excellent vocabulary, and the ability to concentrate. One is short-sighted (like me) one isn't.

I don't think that time is the issue. I think it's content (and I didn't force content, although I banned innapropriate or overly shouty - they've always followed their own interests)

As so many people on this thread have said, children in very recent living memory didn't grow up with tablets and phones. I really think it would actually be easy just to make it socially unacceptable to give very small children devices or watch YouTube and then people would soon work it out. I'm not saying that people wouldn't struggle to start with, but life is struggle, let's just rip the plaster off!

Im replying to a couple of messages here.

Yes tablets are addictive. My DD isn't addicted. She went through a phase of being difficult when asked to put the tablet down and it was removed from her. Now she can pick it up and put it down and will voluntarily end her allocated time early if shes done. She also doesnt have it on journeys except planes (where she uses it to watch movies with headphones).

I frequently read books with the TV on, perfectly capable of filtering out the noise i dont want to listen to. So does my eldest DD. Maybe it's individual thing. I also cant work or study in silence so maybe that's just an our household thing so having the TV on doesnt actually distract from other activities. During lockdown DD would stop and watch the show intro songs and then toddle off to whatever toy she was aiming for, so whilst it was on all the time she wasn't watching it constantly. Youngest DD has specific times the TV is one. I.e. she has the baby club before nap, cbeebies after lunch when parent is cleaning the kitchen, and some bedtime shows pre bath (beddybyes, night garden, moon baby, clangers) while we're tidying the kitchen, getting the laundry out and tidying the living room.

I will repeat it's not an all or nothing thing! I am the parent with the fidget toys, crayons and sticker books in my bag when we go out, BUT im also the parent that allows the TV on and gives DD an hour of tablet time a day.

I still maintain it's not a time thing, but an interaction thing and you're more likely to have success with a campaign aimed at that rather than a simple turn off the screen campaign.

With jigsaws, Lego or a book.

They are just excuses. Nothing different to life before screens or for families who choose for their children not to have screens.

I fit into all of the things you mention, except I have a degree in education and a detailed knowledge of child development. I worked hard to support my children to learn to play. That was part of my job as a parent.

Being a parent has always been hard work. Maybe being a parent is too hard for some and the choice should be to remain childless. If being a parent is a priority but is seen as hard work, what gives?
Your child is your absolute priority.

Think people are getting their knickers in a twist here.

If you are a parent who uses screens but are aware of how long your child is spending on it and are conscious to limit it, then genuinely you aren’t part of the problem. I have friends who are teachers / social workers and the problem is parents whose children do little else. They are arriving at nursery/ school and have never read a book, can’t eat a meal without a screen in front of them, barely play with toys and struggle to interact with others. Teachers can spot these kids a mile off.

FWIW my 3 year old has a tablet, it’s not allowed on in the house. It’s allowed for hospital stays (thankfully becoming less frequent), holidays or car journeys where we don’t want her to fall asleep. We don’t allow screens at mealtimes, but she often has her tonie box on while we are eating. We have a tv in her toy room where she will watch stuff, but most of the time it’s just on in the background while she plays or draws etc. I have friends who are a lot more strict and friends who are a lot more relaxed. There have been periods where we have decided to limit it more and times where we are more relaxed. I would never sit and think oh no she only has 5 more minutes of her state prescribed screen time, but I am conscious of how much time she spends watching things.

I really dislike the narrative that parents are more busy than ever before, or working longer hours
Parents for many decades have had demanding lives and jobs. You still have to parent properly.

Isn't smoking personal responsibility? So we definitely shouldn't have any public health campaigns about that. And gambling is personal responsibility too, let's definitely not have any gambling aware campaigns.

If something is a societal issue then I think government should step in and help and look realistically at what the causes are. Unless you're happy for children to experience harm and just shrug and say, well that's their parents' personal responsibility?

Honestly I think this is bs and an excuse. My son has significant sen needs(verbal apraxia so a speech disorder & asd). He doesn't have a tablet now, but is allowed to play on his 3DS or Nintendo switch but has to take breaks and play other things too. I'm a single mum with no family support so I've had to find ways to make it work. He used to have a tablet and since I got rid of it over a year ago, he's so much better behaved and regulated 🤷🏻‍♀️. He can get a tablet for communicating but he prefers to point or draw things to help me understand (because of the apraxia).

I'm not concerned when he plays switch for an hour after school because then he sits and reads books, does his learning books, plays with his mario toys etc. he also loves to colour and paint and sadly I know many children who are "iPad kids" who won't even colour a picture in. His Nintendo switch isn't allowed out the house either, when we're out my kids bring toys and a book.

How on earth did people cope in the years before screens were invented…

But parenting has always been hard. I grew up in the 60s, both my parents worked full time, no extended family support but my parents didn’t plonk me in front of the tv for hours on end (test card was not that interesting! ). We had regular trips to the library, played with friends, after school clubs, played family games etc.

I agree with previous posters that not all screen time is the same. Below is my opinion on this

Tv made by proper tv channels with standards fine. Often have moral or interesting stories or are adaptations of books etc.

YouTube/tiktok made by randoms not fine and often dreadful

iPads/consoles/computer games which are educational or improve motor skills, involve creativity/problem solving fine in moderation

the kind of vapid games designed to be addictive and have very little cognitive benefits not fine.

I will say that toys are obviously better than tv for under 5’s but life happens and I wouldn’t get stressed by a bit of Bluey so you can make dinner or clean the kitchen or just drink a cuppa in peace

I think those are good points, @Scottishshopaholic - it's really about taking time to interact with your children, to talk to them, read and play. They also have to learn to be bored and create games. As you say, managed and supervised time is ok.
.

I'm pretty sure people said all the same things about books.

My eldest is dyspraxic so he has lego and jigsaws, but finds them exhausting. His favourite things are history and geography - which he excels at and is primarily driven by risk-like games he plays on his tablet/computer with friends (and now he's older, against strangers)

My youngest likes crafting - he's really talented, and this is supported by looking up instructions for whatever he wants to do next - he taught himself to crochet, he looks up recipes - it supports him amazingly.

If the kids were just sitting there glued to paw patrol (which to be fair, used to happen sometimes) it would be different I think.

If you don’t give your child a tablet or a phone in the first place then they don’t rely on it.

How will a 3 yo become reliant on something they’ve never had? They absolutely won’t. DGS doesn’t know tablets exist. His parents don’t have them and I never take mine to his house. What he does know about is toys, books, play dough, baking, the garden, his outdoor toys, nature, birds, animals, going for a walk and engaging with others.

I think it’s really sad when children are in buggies looking at a screen being pushed around by a parent, also, looking at a screen. There’s such a big world around them to take in and learn about.

My kids know about all these things too - plus they know about tablets and AI, and online safety and installing and configuring and trouble-shooting.

Much like food, I don't think we should exclude any type of play.

I was poor when DD was little and couldn't afford things like tablets, not even a tv until she was 4, so her only screen time was occasionally watching the moomins on my laptop so she became so good at entertaining herself. We did a 13 hour drive when she was 3 and she was happy the entire time with a couple of teddies and a few books.
But when DS was a toddler I got a tablet to occupy him because I had to take him with me to group physiotherapy so I needed to keep him quiet for an hour in the pram each week but I really regret it now, wish I had just tried toys and hoped for the best (but tbf I really needed that physiotherapy as I could barely walk so I couldn't risk being kicked out of the group if he got bored and made a fuss each week)