AIBU that reducing under 5s screen time is way more complicated than just issuing guidelines?

[Lovelygreenpen]

This guidance is welcome. We need to know facts and risks to make informed choices. But choices often aren’t made entirely freely. Think about healthy eating and exercise guidance and how complicated these can be to follow due to costs and time.

How would following this under 1 hour rule change your daily routine?
Most parents need to work all the hours with COLC and decades of rising housing costs. working life also often expands to expect parents to be in contact from home outside of paid work hours.
How are busy parents supposed to manage? How are solo working parents specifically supposed to manage? Any family with more than one child?
And what about the screens used in childcare settings?
What are the responsibilities of the makers of the crazy overstimulating content for babies and kids?

We know women often have to do more domestic labour than men, even where they live with a male partner. Also, that the makers of the content aimed at kids specifically employ addictive techniques.

So how is this pressured wider environment going to change to make this recommendation more realistic?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d936n7445o

The problem is though that they don’t end up dealing with the consequences. Schools, clubs, eventual employers, society end up dealing the consequences.

Mine didn’t have their own phones till secondary and iPads came later. We did long drives to grandparents without screens. I used to pack small toys and snacks and we did the dreaded eye spy etc. We also had a singalong gruffalo CD. I never want to hear those songs again!

@Treadcarefully11 by the sounds of a couple of ex-teachers I was speaking to earlier today, you’re definitely in a minority as far as parenting & screens go.

They were talking about the rise in children who start school and can’t hold a pen or pencil because they’ve never even spent time drawing!

Yes, I found reducing screen time reduced the amount of meltdowns and I find they are more focused now, and a lot more interested in reading and being outdoors. I totally agree with your comment about better sleep.

My 6 year old has never used a tablet, phone or computer apart from in school. I just don’t ever use them at home with her. She has limited TV time but that’s it. Definitely less than an hour on school days but more at weekends for a film etc.

I manage just fine without, she can eat quietly in a restaurant or wait at an appointment without a screen. I provide books, card games, paper and pens etc where entertainment is needed. It is perfectly possible to avoid screens just like it is possible to cook from scratch- but a lot of people are just a bit shit and don’t bother.

@FancyCatSlave - same with my 7 year old. She watches c. 30 mins of CBBC after supper and before bathtime, maybe a bit more on holiday or when she's sick. But she doesn't have a tablet, computer or any access to a smartphone whatsoever. It isn't a problem. She can sit in a cafe and chat, if she gets bored, she can read her book or do some drawing.

Mine are older now youngest is 15 she never really had any screen time before 5 then she would have the odd Disney film or a bit of her favourite Alvin and the chipmunks, she had such a fantastic imagination and would play for hours from very young.
my two eldest are mid twenties they had more screen time as we used to drive from Manchester to Germany every 8 weeks or so (DH was in the forces) and they had in car DVD players our eldest especially was glued to films it hasn’t hampered his development he’s got a Masters in Maths, He’s a computer engineer now so screens a lot still.
our granddaughter is 10 months and lives with us half the time as her dad (middle DS) has a LOT of screen time at her mums she has zero here. She loves to play , “read” books and being outside we have a 10 hour flight coming up so I’m sure she will have a little then if needs be more so for the other passengers than us.
i think all these guidelines are dumbing down society and we are being spoon fed.
why can’t people just use their common sense? I know theirs always going to be parents who stick them in front of a tv or iPad but what can actually be done those kinds of parents won’t engage with guidelines?
this will just make some parents more stressed

This may put more pressure on parents but I find it hard to understand, for example, why a parent can't read a book to a child whilst waiting for an appointment rather than giving them a phone. Parents are also storing up problems for later by allowing so much access to screens. I work in a primary school and the deterioration in children's ability to behave and concentrate is astonishing. Parents say they are also struggling with the children at home.

I totally agree. I think there's loads of great content on cbeebies and the live tv stream is curated well with a good variety of content.

I don't really have a problem with my kids watching it. I try to sit with them and chat about what's on screen, but that's not always possible.

I'm completely against YouTube shite and never put it on for my kids. I've had to block lots of content on Netflix because it's also brainrot shite. Prime is also problematic because they've purchased YouTube shite and stuck it in the kids bit.

A lot of the issue is how many adults not just kids or parents just wander about glued to their phones. You can stand at the lights in town and count hopw many people are nto watching the traffic to cross but their phones. You see kids being pushed in a pushchair with a silent parent glued to their phone, no chit chat about what they can see, pointing out things in windows and having an actual CONVERSATION.

No wonder kids now start school with little speech.

I think as someone said before, it’s the type of content.

You can watch a movie on an iPad, you can watch YouTube on a TV.

I don’t see a problem with watching 1-2 hours of a feature film now and then that has a story, narrative, quiet bits and loud bits. I do see a problem with watching 2 hours of constant short form videos on YouTube.

My kids use tablets but the key is moderation. It’s not that hard. We have never used them for car journeys or restaurants but will allow free rein on a flight or have tv days if they are sick. The issue is when it creeps into the every day or there is no quality parental interaction.

There is also a massive difference between the two quality of programme (eg CBeebies generally has pretty high standards) versus some tat on you tube.

I actually think there is a big problem with people not paying for childcare while they’re working. Screens become big part of supervision if you need your child to be quiet for a long stretch of time. I would much rather pay for holiday care as I know left to their own devices, there is a good chance screens would feature too much.

This is so sad

My 4 year old is in reception (young one in year), is in the highest phonics group, very good speech etc. he watches the iPad sometimes when I am busy and I don’t think it’s affected him too much. The thing is that I only allow content like Bluey, CBeebies, number blocks etc. Blippi occasionally but it sounds horrid so I try and divert away from that!! YouTube is just built to be addictive and no storyline or educational value. We also go to a lot of museums and parks. Do art and crafts, baking etc. so I think it really is a combination of factors and what else you do with them.

The impact of screen time, particularly tablets and phones, on children has been being discussed for years. I doubt anyone is suddenly going to change their behaviour due to this guidance. Those that care will have done so already, or not introduced it in the first place

I do think there is a world of difference between TV and tablets/YouTube/phones though. The issue is once you start adding such nuance to guidance people can't seem to follow it or get confused

Re your second paragraph you’re wrong- I became a parent in the 00s, nearly everyone went back to work and very few of my fellow nursery/ school parents had family to rely on for childcare etc. as grandparents were still working themselves. The 00s wasn’t the olden days you know, some of those children are still at school. Car seats were mandatory. Smoking in pubs was banned in 07 and Jimmy Savile’s last active tv appearance was 06 - not that these have any relevance.

https://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/news-events/no-evidence-screen-time-is-negative-for-childrens-cognitive-development-and-well-being-oxford-study/

Don’t follow trendy parenting fads or let others inculcate guilt in you. I really do wish people followed the science more.

Make sure their screen time is curated to things that will promote development. Try and do things WITH them where possible. Make sure you encourage toys physical books and plenty of variety.

You said you watch the tv together. “Together” is the operative word imo.

I don’t think of the tv as a “screen” because families can watch it together.

Also, when mine were small (90s). We watched tv, watched videos, then DVDs, played computer games and x box/PlayStation games. All as a family. We have family favourite films etc now they’re adults.

A screen to me is something a child watches alone.

What on earth is 'complicated' about not giving your children access to screens?
I raised one child as a busy working single parent with no screens in the house (didn't have a tv until she was five).
My other child had two busy working parents, and no screens except occasional movies on DVD watched with us.

My child does watch TV but I try to stick to less overstimulating content, like Charlie and Lola or JoJo and GranGran.

We don't allow screens before preschool.

I have taken DC on lots of train journeys and always take books to read to them, sticker books and a notepad and crayons. The same with restaurants. Yes, it requires more effort but most parents could do it if they tried. Seems we're not a common sight these days though as I've had strangers coming up to me to say how great it is to see a child being read to in public. Sometimes we play I Spy or other game.

We also don't allow screens in the car - we listen to music, children's audiobooks or Lyla and Dad podcast.

When DC was small and I needed to cook they'd be in a cot we had set up in the kitchen with some toys. If we went out, before they were verbal I'd have them facing me and chat about random stuff. Often I'd choose a topic, like fruit or space or birds, and go through the alphabet eg talk about apples, then bananas, then carrots....

DC would still watch TV all day if I let them, but is able to occupy themselves, especially if I guide them to an activity, and is often surprisingly keen to help "cook" or "clean".

If you are away from them at work all day I find it sad that you'd come home and plonk them in front of a screen instead of engaging with them.

@Dervel I wonder how that study fits in with the recent court case

It isn't 'complicated' but it isn't easy, if you have become habituated to using screens to pacify your child. Parenting is frequently challenging - getting them to eat reasonably healthily, exercise a bit, do homework, be polite. So some parent's just don't bother, which is a shame for their children. Doing difficult things is part of being a responsible parent.

I don't get the screens in cars thing, doesn't it make your kids vom? I've never had anything like that with kids who are prone to feeling queasy in the car! We got to France by sticking various audiobooks on, which is also a useful way to amuse kids at home that isn't screen based.

I think a lot of parents operate on a "kids must be entertained all the time" wavelength now, with no expectation that their kids can sit still, be bored, or behave themselves without something to bribe or entertain them with. I went to a drama performance for my daughter last weekend, and a younger sibling (maybe 4 or 5) was there, watching tv on his mum's phone rather than watching his sibling perform. Halfway through he got up, jumped over the back of his chair, banged into me and started shouting. Both parents visibly wanted the other one to deal with it and neither intervened until someone else told them to take the kid out, which dad eventually did reluctantly. That is a choice - I don't care if you want to watch your other child, kids don't learn to behave if you have no expectations for their behaviour. I think screentime contributes to this massively and you need to teach your kids to sit through annoying, boring or slightly uncomfortable things without smoothing it over the whole time.

Are you a lobbyist for YouTube or similar, because you sound like one? Are you really that concerned for the parents? Did they (or you) have no warning bringing up children is hard and time consuming and involves sacrifices, including teaching your children to entertain themselves by means that don't involve being addicted to a screen.

Of course parents can make some judgement calls ie allow kids to watch a feature-length film occasionally. But they need to be aware constant screens, handheld in particular and bitesize footage is very, very damaging. Just like, like it or not, eating shit food is very, very damaging even if it takes longer to prepare it. I'm sick of this culture where people are presented with hard scientific evidence regarding harmful ways of behaviour and moan because it makes life a tad more difficult.