AIBU that reducing under 5s screen time is way more complicated than just issuing guidelines?

[Lovelygreenpen]

This guidance is welcome. We need to know facts and risks to make informed choices. But choices often aren’t made entirely freely. Think about healthy eating and exercise guidance and how complicated these can be to follow due to costs and time.

How would following this under 1 hour rule change your daily routine?
Most parents need to work all the hours with COLC and decades of rising housing costs. working life also often expands to expect parents to be in contact from home outside of paid work hours.
How are busy parents supposed to manage? How are solo working parents specifically supposed to manage? Any family with more than one child?
And what about the screens used in childcare settings?
What are the responsibilities of the makers of the crazy overstimulating content for babies and kids?

We know women often have to do more domestic labour than men, even where they live with a male partner. Also, that the makers of the content aimed at kids specifically employ addictive techniques.

So how is this pressured wider environment going to change to make this recommendation more realistic?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1d936n7445o

What benefits are those

I spent the entire summer between primary and secondary school playing Frontier Elite on the family PC, whilst blasting Bon Jovi into my headphones. I remember the producer's (or editor's) strike one winter when instead of breakfast TV (with super-Mario or Pokemon every now and then for the kids) we got to watch back to back Happy Days.

We would come in from school, watch kids TV, then home and away, then back to BBC1 for neighbours, then channel 2 for Star Trek: TNG or Channel 4 for Games Master, then have dinner (after that the TV belonged to my parents)

I had plenty of screen time when I was a child - but it was all just what was available, it wasn't choice the way it is for our kids now - it's a completely different experience - like book schemes vs. free-reading

That's as may be but this guidance is talking about screens and a TV is a screen.

Watch with Mother was quite a different ketttle of fish from the TV of today though. It was a short programme once a day and for most families would have been in black and white until later in the 70s. Even in the 70s and 80s TVs were absolutely tiny in comparison to now. There simply wasn't wall to wall children's TV available.

I'm not sure that 15 years ago can really be called "Yesteryear".

We weren't doing our laundry with mangles and sending children out to forage in the woods in 2010.

I only use iPad (Disney or Netflix) for my 2 year old when I’m cooking and she’s behaving in a way that could get her hurt. Maximum of 30 mins a day if anything.

I don't know why people think there was 'a village' and tons of support around. This largely ceased in the sixties or seventies for must people as it took two salaries in the seventies to live for most folk . I brought children up from 1985 and was very little support from anywhere.

Are screens the cause or more like a symptom because the expectations on parenting and what children are allowed to do independently has changed massively.

I think screens are an issue but only because parenting norms have changed - that's partly environment and partly parental behavior and expectations of kids have changed.

I think the focus on the tech does hide other issues.

Having said that I think too much screen time has been normalised for so many parents in a fairly short space of time. Not all screen time is the same either.

I do think it's the moderation that seem to be missing - screens were a part of my childhood and were a part of my kids - but they did so many other things as well. The exposure they had to screens with rules and limits and may other options for entertaiment has meant they've grown up with the skills to manage their usage when they've reached ages to do so.

The new guidelines may help some parents and may prompt a few to cut back but mostly I think they'll get ignored.

Ultimately using a screen is an easy option which quickly becomes a habit. I say this as someone who absolutely used screens WAY above these guidelines but I absolutely own the fact it was not the best thing developmentally for my children.

I can use all the reasons / excuses I want. My kids didn't sleep, I was exhausted so needed screens so I could doze a bit. I was at breaking point and needed some time without a kid yelling at me. I wanted a bit of adult conversation at dinner. All these things are true, and screens got me the result I wanted - but it doesn't mean the guidance shouldn't be issued.

Sorry, I should’ve been clearer. I mean Phones ands iPads and the unique addictive nature of those.

I’m a lone parent of 3 children and also work full time …. My children never had screen time daily at that age ….even the twins on 5 hour car journeys ….no screens nor in restaurants and cafe. I think saying it’s the parents busy lives contributing to it is just an excuse TBH

I think the one most people would expect is children who can entertain themselves to a certain degree. Which certainly I find to be the case so far (my kids are only 4&7). Also according to more research based evidence rather than just my personal experience benefits would also include increased attention spans, increased physical activity, increased creativity, improved mental health, improved sleep. Arguments that these also affect a lot of adults as well. In small children there's evidence that reducing screen time improves language development, reduces behavioural issues. All sorts really!

But perhaps @Labelledelune had different examples in mind.

I think that was why DH and I had more TV than our parents generation.

IL did have family nearby to help out and DH was taken to job sites at times but my parents didn't it was one full time and one pt round kids and no help.

I think it was harder in many ways as they couldn't on-line shop or do as much by phone so had to take us kids round shops and get tasks done at weekends.

We have WFH or done research when they're in bed or got grocery shopping when they're not around when young- even easy quick recording or using apps for TV programs so easier to get them to table to eat tea than my DMum had. Tech brought many advantages to family life IMO.

I mean Phones ands iPads and the unique addictive nature of those.

Yes! These companies have huge behavioural insights teams who DESIGN these platforms to be engaging and addictive.

This is why i am so concered with our local council spending millions of pounds on the damn things,and handing them out to 5 year olds without telling parents, signing our kids up to apps and data sharing without even informing us, never mind seeking consent!

(This is the Scottish Borders but i have friends in Edinburgh and Glasgow who are having the same red flags raised with what's happened in their schools too)

Guidelines are pointless. Parents know that too much screen time is bad. But unfortunately it's easy to lazy-parent with an iPad.

Of course that's not to say they're always bad. They are a fantastic tool at times, if you need a quiet 15 minutes to do something, or you're on a long car journey, or at a boring family event that's not really geared up for kids.. in those cases, yes, a day of lots of iPad time isn't going to harm long term.

It's the parents who use these daily as a babysitter who need to be taught better and taught how to parent.

@ImImmortalNowBabyDoll @TriggerChappy to be fair there's also growing evidence that television is far more addictive now than it used to be. I'm sure it has a proper term but in this house we refer to the 'flicker rate' of a tv show, i.e. how fast a scene changes or an angle changes or something eye catching/dopamine inducing occurs on screen. For something like the hot wheels cartoon we rarely manage to count to 2 before one of those things happens. For something like fireman sam of the early 90's it's more like 5 or 6 seconds. It creates a dopamine high which has been likened to drugs.

Just to add-we spent hours watching cartoons at the weekend in the 80’s and 90’s. We also played on our nintendo alot. Yes we did play out more on our road, but that’s because our parents generally focused on what they needed to do at the weekend (supermarket, gardening, washing the car). We did always do a weekend walk but alot fewer activities than we do with our kids. We devote pretty much all our weekend to our kids (which we love) and taking them interesting, fun places - cheesy but genuinely making memories.

People saying how different the ‘olden days’ were need to remember how it actually was. I would say we are a society much more engaged with our kids these days (even with all the tech) than any previous decade.

There will always be parents that can’t parent and think all day on an ipad for an under 5 is ok. These guidelines wont help those parents in anyway and will be totally ignored.

I am sure that’s true. And def more fast moving than the wonderful programmes like Bod and Trumpton from my youth…

You will get alot of different opinions on this. My DS (5) has ASD and both myself and DH work full time. We didn't have a TV (not a deliberate choice) until DS was 3. We found as we were so drained by him and his ASD it was all too easy to put the tv on after school - and it massively negatively impacted his behaviour. When the tv broke we didn't replace it so he's had to go cold turkey. His behaviour is much better without it. We do let him watch 30 to 45 mins a day via my laptop whilst he has dinner - controversial but with his asd he is very fussy about food and barely eats but when he's watching tv he's distracted so less likely to say no ro refuse food. No judgement here- do what's best for you.

Like I said at the bottom we had TVs. My mum was strict about how much we watched, but they are a form of screen.

In the 90s and 00s it was a lot easier to live on one or one and half incomes, parents did have more of a support network and more time. Grandparents also didn’t moan about helping out either. And if we really want to get into it there were also a lot of problems that have now been fixed - car seats, smoking in pubs, Jimmy Saville etc. Want those to come back too?

Im not ashamed to say I use my iPad / phone in the morning if my son wakes up early and I need 5 minutes peace, when he’s had a long day and is struggling to eat dinner without having a meltdown, in the car on long journeys so I don’t crash, and he we watch the tv together after a long day of work / nursery.

I think screens are a great tool to be used in moderation. The ‘no screens’ brigade are just virtue signalling.

Children are not allowed to be bored. Boredom is good - it teaches independence.

The PP above rightly notes that many families focus their entire weekend around Fab Fun for kids (vs. their own childhood, where there was fun, but often secondary to what the adults needed to do).

This creates a norm of being 'entertained', either by family activities or by a digital babysitter if the parents have to try to do something else (e.g. cooking as another PP has mentioned).

Letting kids be bored and make their own fun/be creative/read a book is far more beneficial than them being passively fed entertainment at every waking moment.

Agree with this completely. My son (4) has SEN and frequently comes home quite discombobulated from nursery due to the overstimulating environment. He has 30 minds - 1 hour of TV time while I make dinner and it makes such a difference to his overall mood, he is so much calmer.

I don't think kids need hours on end of screen time, of course it is bad for them and often times is a lazy approach to parenting. But so much is not considered, and you have stated the reasons why parents do this perfectly.

Single and FT working parents don't always have the time or emotional resource to entertain their kids every spare minute they get. Yes, children can entertain themselves for a period, and they should. But its naive to think they don't come and seek attention every so often. It can be every few minutes. Is that their fault? No, they're kids, they need attention. Can parents give kids attention every few minutes that they require it? No, they're busy, they're exhausted, etc etc etc. It just isnt practical.

That being said, screen time should not be the only solution. But it is a great way to keep them distracted so you can have a bit of time to reset, or do what you need to. You shouldn't be forcing screens on them all the time, but doing it sometimes isn't a bad thing. The quality of what they are watching is crucial. I feel there is a balance that can work out really well for everyone with regards to screen time, when it is implemented properly.

The reality is that when parents get overwhelmed and LOs dont always want to entertain themselves, the parent may become agitated, even shouty etc. Is it better to be emotionally exhausted taking it out on your children, or to let them have some screen time so you can reset?

I think back to my own childhood. 2008 I had the TV, Nintendo DS, Nintendo Wii, PS2, and so on. Parents have relied more on screens throughout time than people would care to admit. The PC was on all day at my auntie's house in late 90s - early 2000s. I still played with toys, played outside a lot. As others have pointed out, parents don't feel safe to allow their kids to play out anymore, often times. Even if I felt there were no environmental safety risks, I certainly wouldn't be able to allow my son to play out alone with his friends due to his additional needs.

There are so many nuances and factors involved in this debate, that I really don't think its a one size fits all matter.

People saying how their kids have never held a screen, clearly casting judgement on those who's kids have. Its such a judgemental mindset and not one to wear like a badge of honour. If you've achieved this, that's great. Its not possible for everybody. With the exception of 'lazy' parenting, I think properly, mindfully controlled screen time can be a really useful tool for those with limited support, or those working full time.

Edit: didn't mean to reply to this quoted comment; was replying to the OP.

I honestly don't mean this to be a brag or sound like a martyr, but is there anyone else out there who manages long car journeys without screens? We regularly do drives of 7 or 8 hours, multiple times a year. We used to do 14+ but was overnight so they were mostly asleep. We don't have any tablets or anything. The kids have yoto players, since learning to read my eldest now has my old kindle or we go to the library and get books out to take with us. He quite likes to follow along where we are on a road atlas. We listen to audiobooks or podcasts and stop probably every 2-3 hours and use an app like Playground Buddy to find somewhere to run around (it's lists playgrounds globally, it's great). When I read threads like this I feel like my kids are unicorns 😅or is it because they're still pretty little (7&almost 5) and haven't reached the preteen years yet?! Not that that will make me change things, but perhaps they'll start pestering.

the question is now what you do with that guilt. Everyone working long hours presumably also does it to create a good life for the kids?

But sometimes it might be more efficient investing your time in the kids to make sure they develop into resilient, self regulated and focused grown ups. And not adults with a high need for constant dopamine hits and entertainment on tap.

Also, I get where you’re coming from as I also work for myself and it is flipping hard.

I’d like to join the chorus that my kids often do long car journeys and never use screens. That’s because they’d be sick after 5 minutes, I’m sure they would do at times if they weren’t.

I was brought up in the 90s. Watched CBBC, Neighbours, Home and Away, Hollyoaks and then into the ‘main’ soaps. I did do some sport but spent many hours in front of the telly, on the PC playing Monkey Island and Theme Park or on the Game Boy. My kids have too much screen time too, they’re older than these guidelines but we do balance it with hobbies and they both spend a lot of time out of the house with friends.

Remember to treat these guidelines like the safe sleep, weaning, car seat guidelines. Do you own research (from decent sources- not crazy people on TikTok) and do what’s best for you. Sometimes you have to just be good enough to keep it all together.