Resident doctors synicsl strike again

[uneffingbelievable]

The resident doctors have once again announced a 6 day strike to co incide with a bank holiday weekend.

Whilst I support fair pay and working conditions I have lost all sympathy with them. This is not poverty when you are being paid as a whole package 40-95000 gross on a 44 hr week depending on your seniority.

The arguments about lack of jobs did not stack up with more jobs going to home graduates than IMGS despite the hysteria and a huge number of home graduates not even bothering to apply.

They are coming across as tone deaf and entitled or am I missing something.

@Arraminta The doctors do seem to think they work harder and longer than anyone else but that’s because they don’t know anyone else! The ones who are not suited to medicine should have realised much earlier and it’s the most unionized profession. The most successful organisations in this country are well run and non unionized.

oh dear ladybird - you asked and other than London weighting you do not get paid more in London. Let me spell it out to you and copy from the GWS I was looking at today.

Basic Pay nodal point 5 : 70425
Pay for add hours > 40 - 7.75 hr : 13645
Enhanced pay rate 37% : 652
Weekend allowance 5% 1:6 : 3522
Availability allowance 8% : 5634
London weighting : 2162

Total pay 96040 in London or 93878 outside London

So yes I know what I am talking about.

Yes the job is hard and stressful but conditions are much better than they were and career progression does happen but not always in the simple step wise way some junior doctors think they are entitled to. They may need to get another year of experience before progressing but the majority will progress to where they want to be.

Rather than patronise me because you believe I am not a doctor and therefore not your equivalent intellectually - accept you know nothing about me other than I know the NHS well and resident doctors and consultants pay very well.

Sorry but that just isn't true. Biomed which is where career scientists come from is full of failed medics. The hours of lab work don't even come close.

@uneffingbelievable I think on the last thread about this it emerged that they were counting pay after tax, i.e in a way that no other pay is counted. I don't know but that could well be what is going on here. The level of entitled ignorance is breathtaking.

So instead of looking at the top of payslips showing the hours worked and pay, they looked at the net pay at the bottom, with tax, pension, n.i.contributions and student loan taken off and divided that by the hours worked to come up with their claimed pay per hour!

Oh dear - I think it might be time for you to work in a different sector if it pains you so to be around so many dreadfully overpaid doctors!

Are you HR/ payroll?

Yes I understand what London weighting is. That’s precisely why I said about it - you get more for state sector jobs (including nhs) if you work in London… albeit not enough extra often to cover increased costs.

The nodal point 5 you refer to actually covers ST6-8. So same as the st8 I’ve been referencing. They have been qualified drs for around 8-10 years plus the 5 yr medical degree. So not very junior at all. Hence to name change from junior to resident. It was a misleading title. So no, that is not overpaid at all for that level of expertise!

I could be wrong but I’m guessing you might be office based? Seems from your negativity and venom you’re not so clued up on the ins and outs of a real life shift and what it looks like. Only on paper sadly!!

Thankfully Streeting has got UK medical graduate prioritisation back in place.

Excellent post.

In my experience this amount of venom towards doctors always has an underlying reason for example missed opportunity to become a doctor themselves.

Walk a mile in their shoes before judging these very special people.

I do not hate doctors at all but no one can claim poverty and lack of pay on 96k per annum. To do that is tone deaf.
At no point have I said they are over paid - just this strike is being fought on the wrong battle grounds - reduce the interest on all student loans would be worth more than a 20% pay rise.

I actually love my job, enjoy working with all professions in the nhs - there are entitled idiots in all professions but they are not going on strike at the moment or lying.

WE would all love pay restoration but that would bankrupt the country even more than it is already.
My point is that regardless of education/ training/ expertise etc no one can claim that 96k is not a good salary comparing other careers is pointless - this is the pay and it is OK.
As to what a real life shift of work in the NHS is like - yes I am very aware of what that means and what it is like.
Your condescension and arrogance pours out of your posts - mine as you see is based on fact.

@uneffingbelievable you are not a doctor. You have no idea of the responsibility doctors carry. You will always be on the outside looking in. You really come across as very ignorant of the medical profession (qualified doctors).

I think you’ve lost the room when you just repeatedly keep banging on and on and on about 96k. This is not an average resident dr salary. It’s misleading. The experienced resident drs who get this amount are 15+ yrs experience (including medical degree).

No you don’t come across at all that you like medical staff! Oozes out of your posts.

I think my favourite is the statement that they know what a medical shift is like. It is comedy gold.

Definitely does not like doctors it really does ooze out of the posts.

Your post hit a nerve with me. I have two children 28 and 29 still trying to get into training. My lovely son is off to Aus as the training prospects are so much better over there. The rotations London may be close together the ones in many other areas Scotland Wales Yorkshire are not.

I work 37 hours a week as a lawyer. They work far more before being paid any overtime.

I would not consider timetabled undergraduate hours to be an arbiter of intellectual difficulty or prestige. In intellectual terms I regard medicine as reasonably challenging, not one of the top challenges. PP said students are drawn from the top 25% of undergraduates and that sounds about right.

I was talking about the nation’s most successful you g PhD scientists across a variety of fields who are, collectively, facing a crisis. You appear to be talking about a different cohort.

In any case, if your statement is true I would appreciate data. What % of biomedical scientists do you suppose are ‘failed medics’?

Yes FY1 and 2 average salaries are around 45k - they are starter jobs in fact FY1 you are not fully registered. Many of these 4 month posts have no out of hours component so pay is less thn a busy one in surgery, medicine, ED

CT1-3 are on an average of 60-70k
ST3-5 75~
ST6-8 80+

No one in there right mind can say that is not a decent salary, you are being paid for your time and experience which is why pay goes up!

As to knowing what a resident doctors shift is - yes I do, working over my shift yes, cursing my colleagues for leaving all the jobs to the next person coming on - yes I do. So I know that everyone has time to get a drink of water, bite to eat for 10 minutes whilst writing up their notes - not ideal but do able.

Like I said, if they were striking for student loan revamping then I would fully support this but to think that one group of professionals in the NHS should have their pay restored to an arbitrary year on a suspect measure and everyone else gets to continue with their eroded pay - no I do not. That is arrogance beyond belief - why not nurses, physios, management etc

That's the same for many other vital professions into which doctors will always be on the outside looking in. Doctors will have no idea of the responsibility the engineer of a large bridge will carry for example.

Its not a competition. And doing medicine does not make you a better person than anyone else.

Depends which firm and which specialism you do.

Probably just doesnt like the doctors who use the threat of people dying to get more cash (having had a huge pay increase already in 2024). Those doctors don't appear to have much of a vocation and should be working somewhere they get paid more like Goldman Sachs (if they could get in).

I see the BMA staff are also striking. Lovely people. Finger on the pulse of the nation's current economic plight.

Yes, this is true - which is why I haven’t come across doctors commenting on other professions or saying that they shouldn’t strike/lobby for better pay and conditions (in and outside of healthcare).

I'm responding to a PP.

Doctors strikes are run by a particularly belligerent left wing organisation in the current make up of the BMA. They make unreasonable demands and use the potential death of patients during strikes as a threat. That's what gives them power. Unlike other professions. It's hideous. Which is why I think these strikes are losing the support of many.

Precisely. Essentially, junior doctors are moaning that they're going to have to work very long hours in a demanding job that carries a lot of responsibility. Er yes? It makes them no different to many other newly qualified professionals.

But, like other professions, their hard work and long hours will lead to fewer hours and a salary + pension beyond the reach of just about everyone.

It's just greed. If they wanted to make serious money then they should gave gone to work in the City or finance, although the hours there are back breaking too. That way, at least they wouldn't be risking people's lives to get the money they crave.

Credulous mothers oh dear. Newsflash mothers of doctors can be doctors themselves.

That doesn't refute my point you know.

And the mothers of doctors who are doctors know that juniors are not solely responsible for their patients. Any junior doctor with any sense gets help when they are out of their depth.

Threatening the spectre of death is one of the most offensive parts of this campaign.

What suffers is not emergency care but the person who is waiting for their hip replacement, prostate surgery, cardiac bypass etc - they are those damn people who have paid taxes which pay the wages of all public funded services. The gimme more or you will die brigade are an embarrassment to the profession that i am proud to be long to.

There are so many other things they could be fighting for to improve their working lives, patient care and the working lives of everyone in the NHS, all students irrespective of their degree - that I would support wholeheartedly.

If you are a doctor , you are out of touch with current hospital medicine. I can’t believe a doctor would be so vitriolic about our resident doctors .
This is not just about money it’s about conditions and training numbers. Our foundation doctors have a crap time. They come out of 6 years of university with 100K debt in many cases, travel away from family mid 20s to take a job for 2 years with no social support. The first 2 years are hard, often with low staffing , moved from pillar to post to cover other teams. They have huge responsibility even with senior colleagues elsewhere busy to call on when really stuck.

At the end of this there is a bottle neck with not enough training numbers or even local jobs. So it’s another move if you are lucky, maybe no consistency or support if you can get locums or being jobless for many.
I personally know a number of excellent UK trained doctors in this position. Our best trainee last year quit and went to work in Tesco as the registrations and indemnity payments and training g paperwork did not justify the money earned from sporadic locums.

The problem is that they compete against more experienced doctors wishi g to move to the UK and it is cheaper to hire ACPs and physicians associates to do part of their role at a lower price.

personally I support the strike .