To think this is a real possibility in the future? (State pension)

[TheOtherBoleynSister]

I am 34 and ever since I started working people have said don’t rely on there being a state pension. So I’m pretty pessimistic about it.

I honestly believe that for people under 40, the universal state pension (paid regardless of income or capital to those who have paid NI for a certain number of years) won’t exist. That there will be no qualifying ‘age’, and instead older people will be the same as the rest of the population when it comes to benefit eligibility ie. Have to be certified as too ill or physically unable to work, and get UC if income is low and savings are below £16k. In other words, being a certain age won’t entitle us to any benefit like it does now.

In this awful very bleak future, older people who can no longer work, who have savings/money above the threshold or private pensions, will need to rely solely on the money they have unless or until they get to the point where they now qualify for benefits.

Of course I don’t want this to happen, but with all the stories about the cost of pensions and the rising number of older people it feels inevitable. But the reality is many people’s private pensions won’t be nearly enough to last (but maybe they will be forced to spend them before any help), and there’s also talk in the press of some wanting to do away with ‘generous’ public sector pensions (which are not as generous as they used to be, albeit they are better than a lot of private schemes).

I am quite aware of pensions due to older relatives and friends who are of that age, but many people my age haven’t a clue about them or how they work. I do think we will be seeing a real disaster in less than 30 years, but people don’t care as it’s someone else’s/ tomorrow’s problem.

You can’t get pension credit if you have savings over £16k. Many people will have savings over that amount once they get to their late 60s, whether it’s from inheritance or whatever.

I’m not convinced there would be uproar either, for example, if they said the rules would change for people under 40. People my age don’t seem to care about pensions, it’s decades away, they care more about being able to afford a house. I honestly think people would just shrug but then later realise how bad it is in 20-30 years time when it’s too late.

I reckon it'll be pushed back and pushed back to 80 and then removed altogether - but with no benefits, either.

Yes, because all the workers who would have retired at 60/65 are made to stay in work. If they had been retiring the vacancies would have been there.

All the talks of unions - that may have worked in the past, but in a globalised world it doesn't work any more.

Businesses demand the cheapest possible labour. If one country won't provide it, there are others that will - and soon they won't need human labour at all.

Robots are now able to perform complex and delicate procedures. They are a dream to many businesses - no sick leave, no sleep, no maternity leave, no need to heat the factory.

We have to prepare for the changes coming - employment is going to change rapidly and the lifestyle we know now will not be achievable.

It wouldn’t surprise me. We are mid thirties- just too young for free university, just too old for subsidised childcare. We missed out on affordable housing so despite being resented for decent salaries things are tight every month due to outrageous mortgage payments and high wraparound childcare costs. Labour plan on taxing private pension contributions more than £2000 a year disincentivising planning for your own future but I’m 100% sure the state pension age will either be nearer 80 or means tested by the time we get there. I can’t afford more than 2 kids but today removed a coil from a non working woman signed off sick long term for stress to have her 5th child.

make it all make sense

We have already advised our grandchildren who are just starting to work to think about a private pension.
Or at least save money for the future.

Because you literally can go onto the government website and check that you have contributed enough to qualify for the full state pension and you can buy years that you may have missed so you can qualify, plus it’s a social contract with the population, we all pay for the generation above us, so yes we all pay in. I honestly don’t see then point of these threads which pop up so regularly, it’s like you desperately want there to be no state pension.

Possibly true. But I have known people who work well beyond state pension age as they like their jobs and working, and don’t want to stop. It wasn’t because they needed the money, some people just want to continue.

It was different in the past, as people could be forced to retire against their will.

They’re the ones with big private or work pensions, not those living only on the state pension!

A women’s union. I can’t see any unions these days who give a shit about women’s rights, can you? Can you name me any union that even knows what a women is?

That’s an interesting example you chose.

If someone paid in £2k per year for 50 years (e.g. age 18-68), allowing for a mid-range return (4% after inflation), by the time they reached 68 the pot would be worth £300k (in today’s money).

Using the often used rule of thumb that they could withdraw 4% without risking their capital, that pot would give them an income of £12k per annum.

i.e. £2k per year paid in (“too little to save for retirement”) would give almost exactly the same as the state retirement at £12k per year.

Unison, Unite, RCN, Usdaw all have women leaders. The NFU had one too.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/02/who-female-union-leaders-uk-strike-action

But they’re not? Rent and council tax are also being paid by benefits?

They think blokes can be women. They think women should just suck it up, strip off in front of blokes and think if they don’t they’re seething bigots. Does that sound like standing up to women’s rights to you? Christ!

Not every thread has to turn into a rant about the trans issue. FWR is that way ➡️

Ok if I only had £100 a week after my rent and council tax had been paid I would be pretty miserable yes. Would you be able to live on that?

@ChefsKisser no no no… remember tax payers are meant to be so joyous and happy to have the privilege of working! There are posters on mn who would happily pay to work, if that meant people who didn’t want to work got the benefits they want remember… 🙄

Yes indeed, but you were the one who suggested joining a union. I’m pointing out how laughable that is for the many, many women who understand how appalling it is to expect a women who has been sexually assaulted to undress in front of a man. Unions supported Upton in this. Thats unconscionable.

You’re on lots of forums and make lots of good points, but that any thinking woman should turn to a union for support after what they’ve done to women’s rights blows my mind.

@Allseeingallknowing That's the point though - if they've got the 'big pensions' then they don't need the state one.

They have enough. They shouldn't be taking more from people poorer than them.

Sorry for quoting my own post but it made me think more. Total NI (employers as well as employees) on that £28k salary would be £3,800 per annum.

If that was instead invested for the employee, then that pension pot after 50 years would be nearly £600k, giving an income of about £24k (in today’s money).

So, maybe there is an argument that the state pension should be abolished. Maybe instead of “each generation paying for the previous generations pensions” it should be actually invested, in a proper pension pot, on behalf of the individual.

At the very least the narrative that people “earn too little to pay into a pension” needs to change.

The problem is, if they did that (invested everyone’s NI into their own pot) there would be no money coming in to pay for current retirees.

Ah what’s yours is mine? That’s fine, I’ll save for my pension happily then as long as not expected to pay towards the state pension!

Exactly. After paying NI for 45 years and higher rate tax for over 20 years I’m sure as hell going to say “Oh, I don’t need my pension now it’s my turn, I won’t claim it”.

That is not the same. Most people don't expect to ever need benefits. Everyone hopes to get old though, and most spend 45+ years saving for it.

There is a problem with people not saving enough for old age. Discouraging it would be counter productive.

I also think it is part of the social contract. Everyone should pay tax and NI according to their means. And everyone should get some benefits in return.

To earn astate pension of 12750 a year you need to have saved a pension pot of approx. 300k.

You think that those that will never receive their pensions would stick around in the UK and pay tax for the rest of you?

If I end up with 300 k in my personal pension it will be through years of going without.