To think this is a real possibility in the future? (State pension)

[TheOtherBoleynSister]

I am 34 and ever since I started working people have said don’t rely on there being a state pension. So I’m pretty pessimistic about it.

I honestly believe that for people under 40, the universal state pension (paid regardless of income or capital to those who have paid NI for a certain number of years) won’t exist. That there will be no qualifying ‘age’, and instead older people will be the same as the rest of the population when it comes to benefit eligibility ie. Have to be certified as too ill or physically unable to work, and get UC if income is low and savings are below £16k. In other words, being a certain age won’t entitle us to any benefit like it does now.

In this awful very bleak future, older people who can no longer work, who have savings/money above the threshold or private pensions, will need to rely solely on the money they have unless or until they get to the point where they now qualify for benefits.

Of course I don’t want this to happen, but with all the stories about the cost of pensions and the rising number of older people it feels inevitable. But the reality is many people’s private pensions won’t be nearly enough to last (but maybe they will be forced to spend them before any help), and there’s also talk in the press of some wanting to do away with ‘generous’ public sector pensions (which are not as generous as they used to be, albeit they are better than a lot of private schemes).

I am quite aware of pensions due to older relatives and friends who are of that age, but many people my age haven’t a clue about them or how they work. I do think we will be seeing a real disaster in less than 30 years, but people don’t care as it’s someone else’s/ tomorrow’s problem.

You’ve paid a tax. NIC is simply a tax. State pension is simply a benefit. There is no contractual obligation for the government to pay you back anything whatsoever

Not going to happen. The state pension will just be gradually devalued.

Take it you’re not a pensioner, or are very wealthy?

Please be sarcasm.

They haven’t paid into anything. That is a big error, to see NI as paying into a fund or savings account.

NI pays for pensions, benefits and the NHS today. I pay NI every month and I don’t see it as paying into my own personal fund. It’s paying for people today, and the Gov can easily change legislation in the future around how it’s spent.

Plus most people who receive state pension, unless they were very high earners, will take out a lot more than they ever ‘paid in’. That’s where the issue is. If people ‘got back’ what they ‘paid in’ their state pension wouldn’t last very long.

Hopefully there will have been a revolution by then brought on by rising racism via Trump, Farage et al, Climate Change etc…massive future shocks that will change everything …some kind of reality reset…as followed the Second World War. The extraction of wealth by a few is beginning to become highly visible as things get tougher there will be change

How? Do you think it would be reduced? I can’t see that happening as there is resistance to getting rid of the triple lock.

It just won’t be continuously raised.

They would have to scrap the triple lock in that case. Triple lock ensures it’s continuously raised.

Public sector workers and those with ‘good jobs’ generally had very generous pensions that don’t exist today.

But those with more ‘working class’ jobs had little / no provision for most of their working lives. I know a couple of ‘baby boomers’ who rely just on state pension as they worked minimum wage jobs for companies that didn’t have schemes.

I’ve been hearing since 1986, so 40 years now, that state pension was unaffordable for the country and it would not be around for my generation. I’m still a fair way off- 14yrs- from collecting.

I don’t think it will be nonexistent or means tested in the future. The cost of the legal challenges and paying back all the voluntary contributions plus the unpopularity of such a move will stop any government from doing it.

They are far more likely to ditch the triple lock which is relatively new.

So state pension will continue as it always has, but it will again fall behind inflation and pensioners will again fall into poverty.

It hasn’t been enough to fully fund retirement for decades.

I’m disappointed that you at 34 and your friends your age have no idea how pensions work. This is something you should have figured out at 24.

Your generation has a lot more options to save than mine did. For the first half of my working life, employer pension plans were rare, none matched contributions or had auto-enrolment. The difficulty saving was worsened by Gordon Brown’s pension tax in 1997.

I’m 47, I’ve thought for years there will be no state pension when I’m 75 or whatever age they put it up to.

That is definitely not true. I work.in the NHS and see.lots.of people who are capable of work but choose to stay on UC. This is not due to the medical condition we see them for, it's not usually disabling.

UC for a single person is under £100 a week, and if you are of working age and not LCWRA or LCW then you are expected to look for work to keep that benefit. If those people you talk of are capable of work they will be required by DWP to spend 35 hours a week looking for work and visit the job centre regularly.

I did this for 3 months when out of work and it was soul destroying.

Why is it more soul destroying to look for a job sitting on your sofa, rent paid than to actually have to get up and go to work?

Those saying you have to get back what you paid in.

You realise that there are many people who die before they reach pension age - they or their beneficiaries don't get anything back for what they 'paid in'

Agree, it's a tax to provide for current pensioners with the hope for the future.

What's wrong with means testing it - and all other benefits? Those with sufficient income will use that for their needs, and those who need help, who fall below threshold - will get limited help.

I think I’d find it pretty soul destroying to live off £100 a week?

Most people too ill to work have multiple health problems and it is the sum of these conditions or a different condition treated by another part of the NHS that makes them too unwell to work.
There is no way you’d have access to all of a patient’s medical records.

As it should be. Don’t you get a yearly raise at work?

The best public sector pensions in the UK are generally considered to be the Civil Service, NHS, and Teachers' schemes, often labeled "gold-plated" due to their generous defined benefit structures, inflation-linked income, and high employer contributions often exceeding 20%.

There are millions of people that work in the public sector that do not benefit from these pensions and I think it is important not to lump them altogether.

Lots of people are not getting raises at work right now.

So pensioners should not be either.

It is soul destroying as you are made to feel like a drain on society even though you’re receiving very little money really. After a month (for me at least) I had to attend the JC weekly rather than fortnightly. They sent me on whole day courses telling me to suck eggs to keep Jobseeker’s Allowance , and also you aren’t allowed to be picky about the jobs you apply for. Even if you have experience or are trained in a certain field, they expect you to apply for anything. And after a month they expected me to apply for jobs up to 90 mins commute away.

All I wanted as a young person out of education was to get a job, which felt really difficult.

Some people go years without a pay rise. I’ve been in jobs without a raise in 5 years.

And the problem with triple lock is it guarantees a raise even if wage growth and inflation is in minus figures.

The problem with state pensions is there this (somewhat contrived/pretend) link with NI contribution record. This makes it very political suicide to take it away, people have "paid in", "paid their stamp".

There are options but they are a bit politically toxic:

• merge income tax & NI and end NI qualifying years, bring in some sort of transitional regime where state pension entitlement gradually reduces over time as people age out of having qualifying years before the change
• remove the triple lock on state pension but keep it on pension credit, allowing inflation to erode state pension value while protecting the poorest

The issues:

• A big chunk of people fundamentally earn too little to save enough for retirement if their contributions are a % of their pay. Eg Nest - if you only earn £26K and only putting 8% in, that's only a couple of grand a year going in. It won't be enough as a pension in old age unless it's just a top up to state pension.
• where you continue to have pension credit as a safety net, this will act as a disincentive to lower earners for whom its not worth saving only to lose eligibility for pension credit

So the extension to that is the NHS then? Basic care for the poor, insured but better care for the better off?