to admire religious fasting for its discipline and commitment?

[catchingup1]

I’ve been thinking about this lately, especially with Ramadan just gone and the dry fasting of 24 hours by Jews and Mormons.

I can't help feeling impressed. Not in a gushy way, just genuinely. Going without food and water for long periods, while still getting on with normal life, work, family etc takes a level of willpower and discipline that I don’t think most people have.

It’s not even just the physical side. It’s the restraint, the routine, the intention behind it. The fact that people are doing it for something bigger than themselves, not just for a diet or health trend.

It's not just people who’ve grown up with it. There are converts every year across different religions who are doing these fasts for the first time as adults. They haven’t had years to “get used to it” and are choosing to take it on anyway. It’s a conscious decision, not just habit.

Even for people who have done it since childhood, plenty still find it challenging every year. It’s not like it becomes effortless, they’re still choosing to stick to it day after day.

Then you read so much now about people struggling with “food noise”, constantly thinking about what to eat next, cravings, snacking, not being able to switch off from it. So the idea of deliberately stepping away from all of that, even for a set period and managing your impulses like that. It does make me respect it.

I’m not saying it makes anyone better than anyone else, just that I admire the self control, discipline and commitment involved.

I came across this about the benefits of dry fasting:

www.bcm.edu/news/dawn-to-dusk-dry-fasting-leads-to-health-benefits-in-the-study-of-immune-cells

It mentioned that Lent is starting and that people were welcome to try it. It mentioned the benefits of giving something up.

They are not asking people to fast for Lent or Ramadan. It is a suggestion just like putting up rainbow flags for Pride. People can take it or leave it.

Why would I start a fake anything? 🙄

Yes.

A large well established company with over 10,000 employees.

Engaging in an unhealthy practice in the name of religion is not something to be celebrated.

As a surgeon with lots of Muslim colleagues, their performance is definitely affected

Many of my colleagues plan annual leave in Ramadan as they acknowledge they aren't at their best. Others are grumpy, tired and make mistakes throughout the month.
One kept fainting and feeling unwell on me, and then refused to drink water because she was fasting.

A small study looking at a couple of medical students doesn't mean people's performance isn't affected by dry fasting.

Im not impressed by anyone's eating habits. But certainly not admiring people for putting themselves through discomfort and potential harm for the sake of religion

You haven't posted any convincing studies that demonstrate dry fasting is healthy or beneficial for the general population. Just a few very small studies that suggest some minor benefits in specific populations, but this isn't a thorough scientific argument

Nons of it is appropriate for the work place.

I don't even like the suggestion, tbh. I don't mind being told that colleagues may be fasting on X dates and might need some additional support which I'm happy to give, but I don't like any suggestion that I should join them. I'm perfectly capable of realising I can give it a go if I want to.

Why not? Nobody is being forced to participate. Those who are interested take part, those who don't ignore it.

Why does it bother you? Nobody has been asked at my workplace to give anyone additional support if they choose to fast. They are just making people aware of the different religious special times of the year.

We have an endometriosis week as well. Should that be banned too?

Just like you have many colleagues who struggle, all the colleagues I have worked with have done none of these things.

One of my friends works in sales and he achieves his highest sales targets every Ramadan.

I don't know, are people going to suggest I get hit in the stomach to try to simulate the effects of endometriosis?

I don't mind being asked to support colleagues who are religiously fasting. I just wouldn't like my employer suggesting that I also carry out some kind of religious fast, or a fast inspired by their religious fast. It feels like proselytising, it's not what I want or need from my employer and I don't like it from street preachers either.

Why does the idea of simply asking for support for fasting colleagues and leaving it there offend you?

I see religious belief as akin to political belief. Something that you choose to believe in. None of anyone elses business or interest.

A medical issue that could be covered under the EA and/or be considered a disability is a different matter.

Yeah, the comparison to endometriosis (and "banning" that awareness week being just like refraining from suggesting to people that they join a religious fast) was such a silly false equivalence that I didn't give it much thought beyond an initial glib line but I probably should have made this point too. You're quite right.

Do you fast OP?

I've suffered from quite serious dehydration and over-hydration in the past. It's a state of like to avoid in the future if at all possible.

Dry fasting appears to be the portal to super powers amongst your friends and colleagues OP.

I wouldn't go that far but it certainly has health benefits:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8358295/

No one is suggesting that endometriosis awareness means people should experience the pain, just like no one is suggesting colleagues should start fasting. Awareness at work has never meant participation.

Workplaces already do this all the time. Endometriosis week, menopause, mental health, Pride. None of that requires anyone to personally take part.

Fasting sits in that same space. Mentioning it isn’t “trying to convert people” or push religion on anyone.

Well, if you're going to suggest that endo awareness is just like suggesting people take part in a religious or religiously inspired fast then yes, that is actually what you're suggesting, as well as the idea that awareness should include participation.

But it was a ridiculous false equivalence anyway. No, a workplace taking it upon itself to suggest to people that they participate in some manner in a religious-based fast is not the same as informing people about a potentially debilitating and painful medical condition. Come on. If it really is so innocent and without pressure, why are you making such ridiculous comparisons? And why are you offended that some people don't want to hear anything further than "fast X is happening this week, some people might need support"? Apparently the suggestion to atheists and people of any other faith that they participate in Religion X's fast creates no more pressure or change to the work environment than if it wasn't suggested, so... why suggest it, and why get so annoyed that some people don't want it suggested?

If your goal is actually a supportive and pleasant workplace, you can just stick with information. Shouldn't be a problem.

Mentioning something isn’t the same as inviting people to take part in it OP.

I would not be impressed if I was asked if I wanted to take part in Ramadan, why the hell would I as a Christian? it’s bordering on offensive. Keep religion out of the work place (and schools!!!)

Oh and before you start banging on about Christmas in schools - the UK is a Christian country so it’s to be expected. Same as in Muslim countries I expect Islam plays a part in their schooling.

Be offended then. I am happy I have a more inclusive workplace.

I am not getting annoyed that people don't want it suggested. They can tell their employers in that case.

My organisation is inclusive and mentions various religious and other non religious events and activities.

Are you Muslim OP?

Yes that is why people remain in or convert to faiths that advocate fasting as an excuse not to eat.